Vanity Fair: George and D&D regarding the last two books

[MegaAIP]

GRRM is not your bitch.

lol

this always makes me laugh.

The blind following, the what ever he/she/they do is great, the people that expect something more are always wrong etc..

Why can't I be a fan and expect the shows not to over take the books or that the books will come out in a reasonable time frame ?

[sifth]

Martin writes when he wants to. You bought books, not the right to have sequels whenever you want. GRRM is not your bitch. What he does is art, it has its own pace and if you're not a whining child you'll respect that. It's unbelievable that some people believe they can tell the author how to spend his own time.

Anyway, I guess it's very likely that the show will catch up. My only hope is that the Meereenese knot will prove to be too much for the minds of television watchers and the show will be canceled.

yea, because GRRM has no right at all to complete his story. He should do whatever he wants with his money, because it not like he's disappointing anyone taking a decade to write his books or anything, lol

[MegaAIP]

Martin writes when he wants to. You bought books, not the right to have sequels whenever you want. GRRM is not your bitch. What he does is art, it has its own pace and if you're not a whining child you'll respect that. It's unbelievable that some people believe they can tell the author how to spend his own time.

Anyway, I guess it's very likely that the show will catch up. My only hope is that the Meereenese knot will prove to be too much for the minds of television watchers and the show will be canceled.

So as a fan and someone who buys the product (put any industry in here it works) I don't have any expectations ?

so we are not talking george and the books maybe a band and they take 10 years between albums and the albums just get worse, I go to the shows, I buy the t-shirts and albums don't I have a right to expect better

or

A video game that's churned out year after year that really is the same game, don't I have the right to bitch and expect better ?

[tallTale]

Martin writes when he wants to. You bought books, not the right to have sequels whenever you want. GRRM is not your bitch. What he does is art, it has its own pace and if you're not a whining child you'll respect that. It's unbelievable that some people believe they can tell the author how to spend his own time.

Anyway, I guess it's very likely that the show will catch up. My only hope is that the Meereenese knot will prove to be too much for the minds of television watchers and the show will be canceled.

Well I guess you have no problem with the show doing whatever they want with the source material because in the end it's Martin's IP.

The problem is the original books were sold under the pretext that this would be the canon of what the eventual resolution will be based upon.

Knowing now how this eventually played out I would have just waited for the show.

[Jojen Dayne-Reed]

HBO could always shave its head and spend a few years with a hedge knight.

It'd give grrm some time to write without forcing a real break that might cost viewers. Giving us anything to watch will keep viewers engaged and in the habit of watching hbo. They can even call it GOT: THK to tie it in closer.

[joluoto2]

Well I guess you have no problem with the show doing whatever they want with the source material because in the end it's Martin's IP.

The problem is the original books were sold under the pretext that this would be the canon of what the eventual resolution will be based upon.

Knowing now how this eventually played out I would have just waited for the show.

What's in the books is still canon. What's in the show is not. The show is diverging more and more from the books for every season. The divergences will only gorw when the show has no source material to draw from, only George's rough guidelines.

[The Snow King]

I find it hilarious how some people blame George for "writting slowly". He certainly write as fast as he can, if that's slow (and I've argued before that it isn't), is it his fault?

We know how fast George can write, when he feels like it, because we already seen it with ACOK and ASOS. He has every right to do anything else, if he wants to, but it's ridiculous to expect that no-one will be disappointed because of that.

Martin writes when he wants to. You bought books, not the right to have sequels whenever you want. GRRM is not your bitch. What he does is art, it has its own pace and if you're not a whining child you'll respect that. It's unbelievable that some people believe they can tell the author how to spend his own time.

Anyway, I guess it's very likely that the show will catch up. My only hope is that the Meereenese knot will prove to be too much for the minds of television watchers and the show will be canceled.

If it would be stand alone books, that yeah, you're right. But if you are buying something that is supposedly part of a trilogy, and the main plot is not self-contained, but clearly unfinished, you have a reasonable expectation that the story will be finished. Obviously it's not a legal obligation, but it's still disappointing when that goal becomes further and further away. I'm not going to tell GRRM what he is supposed to do, there are other stories in the world, but I do not have to like how he handles it.

[Don Roberto]

Don't tell me the side projects have not gotten in the way. I think that's one of the huge issues with it.

Also as to writing slow and blame. He has never come out and said I dedicate x number of hours a week to ASOFI so really we have no idea but you would think in a dire situation where the show over takes the books it would be I will lock my self in a room for x hours a day and get this damn book out ASAP

We don't know if the side projects got in the way, we can only guess. Given that the only non-asoiaf piece George has written in the last 20 years was a short story for one of the Wild Cards books, and the rest was just editing, I'd say not a lot.

As to George's working schedule, given what he has said a few times, it's safe to assume he works on the books pretty much everyday he's home in Santa Fe. And he's said that whenever he's away he may not be writing but he's thinking about it, which is working on the series just as well.

Finally, as to locking himself in a room and forcing himself to write for hours, that's not how creative process works, not by a long shot. Be sure there's no one more interested in finishing these books soon than George himself, and the unrealistic pressures of fans only helps slow it down.

[Don Roberto]

We know how fast George can write, when he feels like it, because we already seen it with ACOK and ASOS. He has every right to do anything else, if he wants to, but it's ridiculous to expect that no-one will be disappointed because of that.

ACOK and ASOS took more time to be written than their release hiatus makes it look like. George started writing asoiaf back in 1991, back when the series was supposed to be three books. The first book ended up being divided in three parts, but was written as a whole volume. He didn't start ACOK from zero after having finished AGOT, neither ASOS from ACOK (though he did start AFFC from zero after ASOS). That makes 10 years for three books, or 3.3 years per book. Sure, still faster than now, but then again he was twenty years younger, it's unrealistic to think he didn't keep up that rate because he didn't feel like it.

[The Snow King]

ACOK and ASOS took more time to be written than their release hiatus makes it look like. George started writing asoiaf back in 1991, back when the series was supposed to be three books. The first book ended up being divided in three parts, but was written as a whole volume. He didn't start ACOK from zero after having finished AGOT, neither ASOS from ACOK (though he did start AFFC from zero after ASOS). That makes 10 years for three books, or 3.3 years per book. Sure, still faster than now, but then again he was twenty years younger, it's unrealistic to think he didn't keep up that rate because he didn't feel like it.

That's a fair point, although I still feel that he has lost passion for this project and would rather do something else. No wonder, really, with already over 20 years spent on one project.

[Ser Greg of House House]

Well I guess you have no problem with the show doing whatever they want with the source material because in the end it's Martin's IP.

The problem is the original books were sold under the pretext that this would be the canon of what the eventual resolution will be based upon.

Knowing now how this eventually played out I would have just waited for the show.

I couldn't care less. I don't even watch the TV show. It's your fault if you're reading books just to know how a TV show will end.

We know how fast George can write, when he feels like it, because we already seen it with ACOK and ASOS. He has every right to do anything else, if he wants to, but it's ridiculous to expect that no-one will be disappointed because of that.

If it would be stand alone books, that yeah, you're right. But if you are buying something that is supposedly part of a trilogy, and the main plot is not self-contained, but clearly unfinished, you have a reasonable expectation that the story will be finished. Obviously it's not a legal obligation, but it's still disappointing when that goal becomes further and further away. I'm not going to tell GRRM what he is supposed to do, there are other stories in the world, but I do not have to like how he handles it.

I agree with you. You seem to be a reasonable person. But there are those who are not reasonable at all. It's one thing to be disappointed and say so, other to start harassing the man because "he goes to too many conventions", "he is enjoying too much of his new money", "he is writing other stuff".

Of course I want him to finish asap. Of course I'm disappointed when it takes longer than I expected. That doesn't mean I will start treating GRRM as my personal slave and bitching about his schedule.

Common sense says that there's risk in reading an unfinished series. I mean, J. K. Rowling could have gotten hit by a bus after the third HP book. If you need to read sequels in your own pace, you should stick to finished series. There are plenty of them.

We're not talking about movies where it's a collective effort, where there is a big company behind it planning it ahead etc. This is one guy and his typewriter (or whatever). It's art, it takes time. People should respect that.

[Baelor Swyft]

I can't imagine how the show could possibly have only 7 seasons. Winds and Dream are bound be both massive, and full of exciting things they're going to want to spend extra time on like they did with Storm. They'd have to finish the vast majority of Feast/Dance in S4 for this to even begin to be plausible, imo. Or they've already decided to come up with their own ending rather than following the books, which is what I'd prefer in the first place.

Anyhoo, it's encouraging that George still thinks he will finish Winds long before the show catches up. He's got a better idea of how far he is on Winds than any of us do.

[Jojosh]

Sansa just had her flowering on the show

If Sophie gets too old it will be past the point of rationality for her to be just 14/15.

Arya well yeah there's not much holding her to being a child besides the fact people mistake her for a boy and if she's an official teen that's not possible.

Maise could probably make this work since she's a good actress

Bran is a little crippled boy no one will think about him getting too old since he's always sitting down or being carried on the show

Rickon will most likely need to be recast

Its funny how only Robb,Dany,and Jon have benefited from the aging up

[tallTale]

It's your fault if you're reading books just to know how a TV show will end.

This quote is a huge facepalm.

You do not understand the problem.

I want to know what happens to the characters I've invested all this time in. There is no way not to be spoiled if the show does it first. Hence that is the canon that ultimately matters.

[FC_Lymond]

GRRM has always pushed fans' expectations to expect books faster. Eager fans aren't just coming up with this stuff in a vacuum.

Reread the postscript for book 4:

Hey, wait a minute!” some of you may be saying about now. “Wait a minute, wait a minute! Where’s Dany and the dragons? Where’s Tyrion? We hardly saw Jon Snow. That can’t be all of it.…”

Well, no. There’s more to come. Another book as big as this one.

I did not forget to write about the other characters. Far from it. I wrote lots about them. Pages and pages and pages. Chapters and more chapters. I was still writing when it dawned on me that the book had become too big to publish in a single volume … and I wasn’t close to finished yet. To tell all of the story that I wanted to tell, I was going to have to cut the book in two.

The simplest way to do that would have been to take what I had, chop it in half around the middle, and end with “To Be Continued.” The more I thought about that, however, the more I felt that the readers would be better served by a book that told all the story for half the characters, rather than half the story for all the characters. So that’s the route I chose to take.

Tyrion, Jon, Dany, Stannis and Melisandre, Davos Seaworth, and all the rest of the characters you love or love to hate will be along next year (I devoutly hope) in A Dance with Dragons, which will focus on events along the Wall and across the sea, just as the present book focused on King’s Landing.

—George R. R. Martin
June 2005

It came out in 2011....DwD came out five years after GRRM wanted it to.

The production of the books has been a big mess for years. GRRM has never acknowledged that. Without acknowledgement of a problem, it won't get fixed.

[Waylin Stark]

I think they'll end up with 8 seasons eventually, because from the look of things, TWoW and ADoS will be pretty long.

Hopefully TWoW comes out Spring 2015 so it can be adapted for the show without problems. This is a bit hopeful but entirely possible. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Meaning ADoS should come out latest by Spring 2018 if they want to avoid the show crossing the books. That gives GRRM nearly 3 years, which is really difficult judging by the last three books.

But for AFfC and ADwD, he had the whole problem of the time skip and too many POVs.

With TWoW, he had many side projects - he was writing other books, writing for the show, going on tours and interviews. If he stops all that and solely concentrates on ADoS, it is possible he'll finish it by 2018.

[nekrohsis]

Writing for yourself is art; writing for publication is a job. What if someone in your office kept pushing back the date they'd complete important projects? If they're your biggest earner, management will suck it up, but it's not professional.

Writing takes time. And the time it takes is nine to five, five days a week. There's a special name for writers who only work when inspiration strikes: unpublished.

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

I don't understand these fanboy excuses.

Because we ask him to finish the books before the show we are making him our bitch?

Sorry, but that is dead wrong.

It's not a fanboy excuse. It a response to fanboys from an author.

Read this.

[MegaAIP]

It's not a fanboy excuse. It a response to fanboys from an author.

Read this.

I just read that and here is where is don't Jive

so it's not a contract, he can do it at his own pace etc... all well and good up untill they decided to make a 7/8 year TV show that would cover the story of ASOIAF and the show is now threating to over take the books.

He is not my bitch, but HBO may be a different story.

I can hear the train wreck off in the distance now

[tallTale]

It's not a fanboy excuse. It a response to fanboys from an author.

Read this.

Author or not it's used as some blanket statement that automatically nulls every possible argument.

Frankly it's a lazy response.