Vanity Fair: George and D&D regarding the last two books

[Karmarni]

If I was GRRM I would have revealed the broad stokes, yes, but I would have reserved the right contractually to have the show not spoil my own ending in the chance that the show did catch up to me. Therefore I think the show will end at a certain preconceived point with the suggestion of how the fully completed story will (or would, in case it doesn't happen) end.

[Ingelheim]

The key is about the 8 seasons. That would give him untill 2018 to finish off the series. If WoW is released in 2015, I think he'll have time to finish ADOS. With 7, he won't be able to finish the series without being overtaking by the show.

[Don Roberto]

People say HBO will need 8 seasons to wrap it up because TWOW and ADOS will likely be huge books and will need three seasons to tell their tale. But the producers won't be doing the final seasons based on the books, because they won't be around yet (even if TWOW is released before season 6, will most likely be too late, as the scripts for s6 will start being written late this year). All they'll have are broad strokes regarding the general plot of the more important characters, with only that they can certainly do it in two seasons.

[Ser Greg of House House]

Also, producing a TV show like GoT is way more expensive than writing a book. They want the money back. If ratings start to plummet, and I think they will, HBO might just cut off a lot of story lines and focus on the main characters. They can easily do that and stick to 7 seasons. Cut off most of Brienne and Jaime stuff, Martells (Quentyn/Arianne) and make Tyrion's and Dany's adventures simpler. Arya doesn't need all those slow chapters etc.

It's almost a miracle that they're keeping things so close to the books. I stopped watching the TV show, but IMO the first season was a brilliant adaptation. But that's only because HBO is very audacious. They're not crazy though.

Also, people are deluded if they think GRRM has any power to stop HBO from spoiling stuff.

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

I just read that and here is where is don't Jive

so it's not a contract, he can do it at his own pace etc... all well and good up untill they decided to make a 7/8 year TV show that would cover the story of ASOIAF and the show is now threating to over take the books.

He is not my bitch, but HBO may be a different story.

I can hear the train wreck off in the distance now

You're right. HBO is a completely different entity, the nature of which makes it answerable to its viewership (ergo, our bitch)

Because he allowed HBO to make a series out of his books, is there some transitive property of bitchdom that makes GRRM somehow answerable in that same way to fans as well? Frankly, since it's been made clear all along that the two are separate properties, I think not.

@tallTale-- I don't think it's a particularly lazy response nor do I think there is any other argument to be made. The man is free to produce his art at the rate that seems appropriate to him. We are all free to read or not read, watch or not watch, and be aggravated or accepting as we see fit.

Thinking about this last night I contemplated having to stop watching the show in order to prevent being spoiled. It was pointed out to me that (unless I quit the internet) spoilers will be unavoidable. Then I realized we could also view it in the reverse and think about how the books "spoil" the show for some viewers.

So yeah, even though I hear the train whistling too, I realize I'll just have to read and watch along whatever timeline I'm given, and learn to accept it. :)

[Marillon]

This depends on how much self-control you can exercise. It'll be difficult, but not impossible, to avoid watching the last seasons and the last episode and to avoid parts of the internet which are talking about it. For example, there will almost certainly be a very strong anti-spoiler policy in operation here where discussions of the ending will be banned from the book forums.

Obviously, the longer the gap between the last episode airing and the final book coming out, the more difficult it will be.

Considering what the show watchers have gone through with some book readers, there's gonna be soo much opportunity for revenge and trolling here for the book readers who decide to not watch the show's ending and wait for the books :lol:

[sifth]

We don't know if the side projects got in the way, we can only guess. Given that the only non-asoiaf piece George has written in the last 20 years was a short story for one of the Wild Cards books, and the rest was just editing, I'd say not a lot.

As to George's working schedule, given what he has said a few times, it's safe to assume he works on the books pretty much everyday he's home in Santa Fe. And he's said that whenever he's away he may not be writing but he's thinking about it, which is working on the series just as well.

Finally, as to locking himself in a room and forcing himself to write for hours, that's not how creative process works, not by a long shot. Be sure there's no one more interested in finishing these books soon than George himself, and the unrealistic pressures of fans only helps slow it down.

GRRM himself said on his not blog that editing is quite the hard job. Is it as hard as writing, not at all, but it's still difficult work and time spent away from writing The BOOK THAT MATTERS. So far I loved all of GRRM's side stories, with the exception of The Sword Sword, but to be perfectly honest I'd rather be reading these stories after A Dream of Spring. Even the World of Ice and Fire seems like a book that should have been completed after the series was finished

GRRM isn't getting any younger and personally me and several other million people would like to see the main series end in his life time. I love the man, but GRRM really needs to stay focused on his main series. He knew about the tv series as far back as 2007 and didn't speed up his writing a bit

[MegaAIP]

GRRM himself said on his not blog that editing is quite the hard job. Is it as hard as writing, not at all, but it's still difficult work and time spent away from writing The BOOK THAT MATTERS. So far I loved all of GRRM's side stories, with the exception of The Sword Sword, but to be perfectly honest I'd rather be reading these stories after A Dream of Spring. Even the World of Ice and Fire seems like a book that should have been completed after the series was finished

GRRM isn't getting any younger and personally me and several other million people would like to see the main series end in his life time. I love the man, but GRRM really needs to stay focused on his main series. He knew about the tv series as far back as 2007 and didn't speed up his writing a bit

I still say it's all these side projects

[AryaNymeriaVisenya]

GRRM himself said on his not blog that editing is quite the hard job. Is it as hard as writing, not at all, but it's still difficult work and time spent away from writing The BOOK THAT MATTERS. So far I loved all of GRRM's side stories, with the exception of The Sword Sword, but to be perfectly honest I'd rather be reading these stories after A Dream of Spring. Even the World of Ice and Fire seems like a book that should have been completed after the series was finished

GRRM isn't getting any younger and personally me and several other million people would like to see the main series end in his life time. I love the man, but GRRM really needs to stay focused on his main series. He knew about the tv series as far back as 2007 and didn't speed up his writing a bit

Give him a break. He's writing as hard as he can and who can blame him for mixing it up with a reference guide here or a screenplay there.

[Winnief]

Also, producing a TV show like GoT is way more expensive than writing a book. They want the money back. If ratings start to plummet, and I think they will, HBO might just cut off a lot of story lines and focus on the main characters. They can easily do that and stick to 7 seasons. Cut off most of Brienne and Jaime stuff, Martells (Quentyn/Arianne) and make Tyrion's and Dany's adventures simpler. Arya doesn't need all those slow chapters etc.

Exactly. Fact is, AFFC and ADWD do contain a lot of filler. (Beautifully written filler..but filler nonetheless.) Get rid of all that, take out a lot of the less than crucial subplots, (I think they'll just throw out Aegon altogether,) and concentrate on the main characters like Lannister's and Starks and you can save a LOT of time. Personally, I have the feeling from the way they're pacing Season Four, that they may be getting ready, to put some things expected in Book 6 at the end of Season Five.

Hopefully, Martin will continue to take an active role in the series, contributing episodes and so forth in the past so the show is at least kept within the spirit of what he had in mind if not in exact details. Giving them notes from he has so far for TWOW and ADOS, including specific scenes already mapped out would go a long way.

[The Human Abstract]

Hmm. More and more I think the show can just find a nice stopping point and stop. I don't see them wrapping up everything from wall vs wildlings in season 4 to completely resolved in 30 episodes.

[OrangeStallion]

I don't know what all the negativity about WoW release date is.. Due to the chapters being released and what not the only negative news on the date is from the publishers, whose tweets seem rather sarcastic. If I was GRRM, id release the book close to the end of this year, if not after season 4, it would be a great moment to capitalize on the franchise's momentum stemming from the Red Wedding and after the most action-packed season yet (the 2nd half of storm of swords is a 100-mile an hour ride, lets be honest).

[sifth]

Give him a break. He's writing as hard as he can and who can blame him for mixing it up with a reference guide here or a screenplay there.

GRRM had about 8 or 9 other side projects on his plate when he finished A Dance with Dragons, if you want me to list them for you I will. If it were only 1 or 2 I wouldn't have an issue with this.

[Facebookless Man]

GRRM set himself up for a spectacular failure, and that has nothing to do with him being my bitch or not.

He basically has three options: rush to write two half-assed books before the show catches up, let the show utterly ruin the series, or set the books aside while he writes the final seasons of the show himself.

The latter is probably the least catastrophic option. Bleh.

[WhiteWalker11]

They could always delay the series. I can't recall which show HBO recently did this with; but it's possible.

[TheRatCook]

Hmmm...I agree to some extent that he writes too slowly and that it is disappointing, but much of the debate is moot if he releases book 6 at the end of this year or in early 2015. If a release does not happen in that time frame, then yes, he has definitely botched things. I remain optimistic for the rest of this year. We should know more soon.

[Facebookless Man]

They could always delay the series. I can't recall which show HBO recently did this with; but it's possible.

what, four years?

[WhiteWalker11]

When I was a sweet summer child I used to believe that there was a slight probability that he's done with the series and is just delaying the releases while he perfects his work . . .

. . . but after the long winter that was ADWD, all of those childish dreams were crushed and will never cross my mind again.

[TheRatCook]

When I was a sweet summer child I used to believe that there was a slight probability that he's done with the series and is just delaying the releases while he perfects his work . . .

. . . but after the long winter that was ADWD, all of those childish dreams were crushed and will never cross my mind again.

I definitely don't think he is done with the series. I'm just being optimistic about TWOW release. And I empathize with you..I've come to the series more recently. I would not be happy if I had begun reading in 1996.

[Florina Laufeyson]

You're right. HBO is a completely different entity, the nature of which makes it answerable to its viewership (ergo, our bitch)

Because he allowed HBO to make a series out of his books, is there some transitive property of bitchdom that makes GRRM somehow answerable in that same way to fans as well? Frankly, since it's been made clear all along that the two are separate properties, I think not.

@tallTale-- I don't think it's a particularly lazy response nor do I think there is any other argument to be made. The man is free to produce his art at the rate that seems appropriate to him. We are all free to read or not read, watch or not watch, and be aggravated or accepting as we see fit.

Thinking about this last night I contemplated having to stop watching the show in order to prevent being spoiled. It was pointed out to me that (unless I quit the internet) spoilers will be unavoidable. Then I realized we could also view it in the reverse and think about how the books "spoil" the show for some viewers.

So yeah, even though I hear the train whistling too, I realize I'll just have to read and watch along whatever timeline I'm given, and learn to accept it. :)

Dis post. :cheers: Its frustrating, yes, but we must treat GRRM with respect and stop harping on his arse. Our constant whinging isnt making the books come out any faster and its just making us all the more stir crazy. Shit happens. Yes, my jimmies get a little rustled at the idea of the show overtaking the books, but its...just inevitable and i just dont see the need to cry about it.