El Guapo Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Well, not really. He doesn't kill any extra people to get his point across, or start any wars of choice, there aren't any crucified wildlings and except for hardhome, his decisions are all solid and strategically sound, he is actually too visionary for his men, he's not lacking in a plan, his plan is too long term for the other dolts to get it. I agree. Jon truly is a perfect special little snowflake and his men should be ashamed that they can't recognize this fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metopheles Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Well he did contemplate torturing Janos Slynt before ultimately lopping his head off instead. Just sayin' He made Gilly hold her hand into a flame He made Gilly leave her child to Mel while the wildling prince can go He sent Aemon to his death He lead wildlings through the Wall and allowed them by this to kill Northeners. They are not that different. I like both of them and are absolutely pro wildlings, but you cannot condemn one of them for actions that the other did too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Reaver Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Yah. Because preparing for a war against others isn't planned genocide. He wants to eradicate them without even knowing the first thing about them. Daenerys knew that the slavers were evil and did it for a reason. If you're going to call that genocide, you first have to show that the Others qualify as "people". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metopheles Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Nero did castrate Sporus, prior to marriage, in an attempt to turn him into a woman."Men wished that Nero's father had taken such a wife."I know that. Still brave for an emperor to marry a slave and more brave even to marry a male slave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 I agree. Jon truly is a perfect special little snowflake and his men should be ashamed that they can't recognize this fact. Indeed, he is the prince that was promised and his is the song of ice and fire. LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Reaver Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 He made Gilly hold her hand into a flame He made Gilly leave her child to Mel while the wildling prince can go He sent Aemon to his death He lead wildlings through the Wall and allowed them by this to kill Northeners. 1. Reference, please. 2. Not torture, clearly trying to save both children. 3. What ? Is Jon psychic now ? Blatant lie. 4. Again, wtf ? What Northerners have the Wildlings killed since being allowed through the wall ? They were disarmed, remember ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metopheles Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 If you're going to call that genocide, you first have to show that the Others qualify as "people". Genocide has nothing to do with "people" directly. And Others qualify as people. They even married humans and they walk on two legs, are able to necromance and have a culture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metopheles Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 1. Reference, please. 2. Not torture, clearly trying to save both children. 3. What ? Is Jon psychic now ? Blatant lie. 4. Again, wtf ? What Northerners have the Wildlings killed since being allowed through the wall ? They were disarmed, remember ? seriously ? Have you even read one of Jons chapters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 I've said before, it will be interesting how GRRM gets himself and her out of the Meereen debacle. Will it be more crazy plot gifts where after having made a mess of it, somehow it's all going to work out afterall? Will she set the whole place on fire and split w/Vic's navy? Or what. I can't see myself believing a fix of slaver's bay that leaves it with a rosy future, I can't see rooting for her leaving it either on fire or a mess, either decision makes her more irresponsible and more of a villian. I know how it will be done: She will start screaming about FIRE UND BLUUUD and I AM MUTHER OF DRAGUUUNNNZZZ and they will say "Ok, let her go so she doesn't continue to hear that" and then she will leave :D. Seriously now, Dany always gets a free pass for everything because "She is the mother of dragons" and she is "a small girl who knows nothing about rulling and leading so she have to learn." I think that by now it's clear that what Metopheles does is just trolling so I don't think that we should keep feeding him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 seriously ? Have you even read one of Jons chapters? You're not going to be taken seriously, at least by me, when you blame Jon for Aemon's death when we know, you know, from reading the chapters, that he sent him away for the express purpose to save his life and prevent Red Dress from possibly burning him alive for his king's blood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Guapo Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 What is this nonsense about Dany getting a "free pass" even supposed to mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 You're not going to be taken seriously, at least by me, when you blame Jon for Aemon's death when we know, you know, from reading the chapters, that he sent him away for the express purpose to save his life and prevent Red Dress from possibly burning him alive for his king's blood. I think that the fact that he claims that Jon is planning the genocide of the Others tops Aemon's death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metopheles Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 I think that by now it's clear that what Metopheles does is just trolling so I don't think that we should keep feeding him. says the one that would never allow any character other than Jon to be accepted as good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Reaver Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Genocide has nothing to do with "people" directly. And Others qualify as people. They even married humans and they walk on two legs, are able to necromance and have a culture. Yes, it does. It isn't genocide unless it's against a race or people, defined as a subset of the human race. This is clear from the etymology of the word, coming from the greek genos, meaning race. Walking on two legs and being able to "necromance" are hardly qualifiers for being a race. Chickens walk on two legs, but killing them wouldn't be called genocide. But do go ahead and show their culture... Also, where has Jon stated he wants to eradicate the others ? All he wants is to defend against them eradicating the humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Well he did contemplate torturing Janos Slynt before ultimately lopping his head off instead. Just sayin'Taking away a mothers baby could be seen as torture as well. It inflicted as much pain on Gilly as any other form of torture imo. Were his motives from a good place, yes, but it was still cruel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 says the one that would never allow any character other than Jon to be accepted as good. Yes, you are one hundred percent wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metopheles Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Yes, it does. It isn't genocide unless it's against a race or people, defined as a subset of the human race. This is clear from the etymology of the word, coming from the greek genos, meaning race. Walking on two legs and being able to "necromance" are hardly qualifiers for being a race. Chickens walk on two legs, but killing them wouldn't be called genocide. But do go ahead and show their culture... Also, where has Jon stated he wants to eradicate the others ? All he wants is to defend against them eradicating the humans. I was returning the favor when talk started about Daenerys' genocide. And Jon's actions, and all the others, preparing to simply get rid of the Others, qualifys perfectly as genocide for me. In the first books we saw the wildlings as savages without culture and were needed to be kept shut away. Now we know better. I wait for the moment they open their eyes and see Others in another light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 I know how it will be done: She will start screaming about FIRE UND BLUUUD and I AM MUTHER OF DRAGUUUNNNZZZ and they will say "Ok, let her go so she doesn't continue to hear that" and then she will leave :D. Seriously now, Dany always gets a free pass for everything because "She is the mother of dragons" and she is "a small girl who knows nothing about rulling and leading so she have to learn." I think that by now it's clear that what Metopheles does is just trolling so I don't think that we should keep feeding him. I seriously am REALLY curious how he intends to resolve the slaver's bay debacle. I see about a 50/50 chance for either a highly unrealistic 'happy ending' or she will simply burn it down by accident and sail away to Westeros, having learning whatever lesson she thinks she learned, and on to more fire and blood until she finally, hopefully meets the others and leaves the humans alone for a change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dany Girl Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Contemplating isn't doing. Heck, if we judged people for what they contemplate, everyone would be in jail right now.Well he does throw Karstark in an ice cell. But I guess since he gave him furs it's not torture :dunno: Oh, wait, by doing so he broke his vow of not getting involved in the politics of Westeros. Again. Bad Jon, no cake for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metopheles Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 I love it how when it comes to Jon, everybody freaks out and pads him on the shoulder for his good work, and protecting him from anybody that speaks against him, But when it comes to Daenerys...oh. no. you. didn't. HATE TIRADES and tantrums against her without any mercy. And calling me a troll only because I have a different opinion ? That is just sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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