Dany Girl Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Taking away a mothers baby could be seen as torture as well. It inflicted as much pain on Gilly as any other form of torture imo. Were his motives from a good place, yes, but it was still cruel.It is torture, any mother will tell you. He takes away her baby unwillingly, Gilly knows she will never see that kid again, it will likely die, either because Mel doesn't know he's not Mance's or during the oncoming battle(s). And to top it, Jon was pretty fucking cruel about the situation in his actions twords Gilly. Jon is not evil or bad, but he's not some super special snowflake who's above cruelty and torture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 It is torture, any mother will tell you. He takes away her baby unwillingly, Gilly knows she will never see that kid again, it will likely die, either because Mel doesn't know he's not Mance's or during the oncoming battle(s). And to top it, Jon was pretty fucking cruel about the situation in his actions twords Gilly. Gilly had a choice didn't she? After all Jon was kind enough to allow to Gilly stay at the Wall. It was his right as LC so simply send her Beyond the Wall and left her there but he hadn't done it. Mel does know that the Monster isn't Mance's son. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metopheles Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Gilly had a choice didn't she? After all Jon was kind enough to allow to Gilly stay at the Wall. It was his right as LC so simply send her Beyond the Wall and left her there but he hadn't done it. Mel does know that the Monster isn't Mance's son. talk about trolling.. -_- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Gilly had a choice didn't she? After all Jon was kind enough to allow to Gilly stay at the Wall. It was his right as LC so simply send her Beyond the Wall and left her there but he hadn't done it.So her choice is certain death beyond the Wall, or give up your baby? Yeah, hell of a choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 It is torture, any mother will tell you. He takes away her baby unwillingly, Gilly knows she will never see that kid again, it will likely die, either because Mel doesn't know he's not Mance's or during the oncoming battle(s). And to top it, Jon was pretty fucking cruel about the situation in his actions twords Gilly.Jon is not evil or bad, but he's not some super special snowflake who's above cruelty and torture. No being separated from your baby is not "torture". Torture is what Theon endured, it's being crucified, Being separated from your baby is really sad, painful and depressing, but unless torture now mean anything that is sad, then it doesn't qualify or even close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Fevre Dream Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Did I just read that it was great that Nero castrated a male slave and married him? Yeah, I'm betting that slave thought it was great? :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metopheles Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 No being separated from your baby is not "torture". Torture is what Theon endured, it's being crucified, Being separated from your baby is really sad, painful and depressing, but unless torture now mean anything that is sad, then it doesn't qualify or even close. torture is not only something physical. Sitting in a cell, not knowing when you get executed qualifies perfectly as torture Or separating a mother from her child that is still on the breast. Calling an innocent child bastard all his life and excluding him from the family even if he is part of it, is torture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metopheles Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Did I just read that it was great that Nero castrated a male slave and married him? Yeah, I'm betting that slave thought it was great? :rolleyes: context ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dany Girl Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Gilly had a choice didn't she? After all Jon was kind enough to allow to Gilly stay at the Wall. It was his right as LC so simply send her Beyond the Wall and left her there but he hadn't done it. Mel does know that the Monster isn't Mance's son. Nope, because Jon didn't give her a choice. He forcibly took her new born baby from her. That's horrific. And send her back beyond the wall? So her choice is:-we both die- give up your son to fairly certain death, even if he lives the likelihood you'll ever see him is pretty much zero. Ask any mother with a brand new baby how they'd feel if it was ripped out of their hands to face a probable death only to have a strangers baby forced on you? To a mom, that's basically worse than death. At least to every mom I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghosts in winterfell Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Mass extermination. Never good. Never right. But I see no other way in such a case. We saw what it did when Daenerys did not get rid of all. I am always for the non violent way. But this time there was no option for it. She couldn't go there and hold a hungerstrike for 90 days or have a sit in. The slavers would have loved that. She would have died and they would have continued their lives. Lol Dany has no other option in the fight for human rights than eradicating an entire population! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metopheles Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Nope, because Jon didn't give her a choice. He forcibly took her new born baby from her. That's horrific.And send her back beyond the wall? So her choice is:-we both die- give up your son to fairly certain death, even if he lives the likelihood you'll ever see him is pretty much zero.Ask any mother with a brand new baby how they'd feel if it was ripped out of their hands to face a probable death only to have a strangers baby forced on you? To a mom, that's basically worse than death. At least to every mom I know.Especially if you just ran away from your home to save it and protected it from Others and whatnot and endured so much to keep it safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metopheles Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Lol Dany has no other option in the fight for human rights than eradicating an entire population! What would you do ? curious about your solution Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Lol Dany has no other option in the fight for human rights than eradicating an entire population!She didn't wipe out the entire population. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dany Girl Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 No being separated from your baby is not "torture". Torture is what Theon endured, it's being crucified, Being separated from your baby is really sad, painful and depressing, but unless torture now mean anything that is sad, then it doesn't qualify or even close.Being separated from your baby knowing they will likely die is torture. Mel didn't know Gilly's son wasn't Mance's until much later, so Gilly's son was in the same danger Mance's would have been.Then there's the fact that war is heading straight for CB and now no one who cares if Gilly's son lives is there. None of the Crows will protect her son, none of the Wildings will protect her son. Val might, but if shit hits the fan Val might chose to save her own neck instead. Gilly's son is nothing to her. Her nephew would be different, but not Gilly's son. Gilly's son now has a very high probability of dying because of Jon Snow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Reaver Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Ask any mother with a brand new baby how they'd feel if it was ripped out of their hands to face a probable death only to have a strangers baby forced on you? To a mom, that's basically worse than death. At least to every mom I know. Ask any mother with a 12 year old child how they'd feel if it was brutally murdered in the street before their eyes, for the crime of wearing a certain garment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 torture is not only something physical. Sitting in a cell, not knowing when you get executed qualifies perfectly as torture Or separating a mother from her child that is still on the breast. Calling an innocent child bastard all his life and excluding him from the family even if he is part of it, is torture. So, now hurting someone's feelings with mean words=torture. Okay, maybe you are trolling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Being separated from your baby knowing they will likely die is torture.Mel didn't know Gilly's son wasn't Mance's until much later, so Gilly's son was in the same danger Mance's would have been.Then there's the fact that war is heading straight for CB and now no one who cares if Gilly's son lives is there. None of the Crows will protect her son, none of the Wildings will protect her son. Val might, but if shit hits the fan Val might chose to save her own neck instead. Gilly's son is nothing to her. Her nephew would be different, but not Gilly's son.Gilly's son now has a very high probability of dying because of Jon Snow. So, what? Now "being in danger" is torture, too? Or, "maybe dying because no one will protect you" is torture? "Has a high probability of dying"? Get back to me when Jon starts killing 13 year olds because he doesn't like the business their father's are in or stringing up random people on crosses for the same reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghosts in winterfell Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 She didn't wipe out the entire population. I'm aware, I was poking fun at Metopheles' assertion that mass extermination is the only option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Guapo Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Ask any mother with a 12 year old child how they'd feel if it was brutally murdered in the street before their eyes, for the crime of wearing a certain garment. Oh boo freakin hoo. I am sure this "mother" didn't shed one bloody tear to all the thousands of dead slave children that her husband was responsible for in the training of the unsullied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Ask any mother with a 12 year old child how they'd feel if it was brutally murdered in the street before their eyes, for the crime of wearing a certain garment.So because Dany was brutal to some slavers, Jon isn't wrong for stealing an innocent rape victims baby from her? I don't see the logic here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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