[TWoW SPOILERS] March chapter mercy part ii

[Lady Fevre Dream]

Shae's murder was covered up, and she is basically noone as well. Methinks either Sansa or just a random girl Tyrion rapes to show how depraved and twisted he is.

After all, she has little to no lines, making the Sansa case less probable. It's still 50-50 to me.

Actually, I'm wondering if the confusion is that she says Mercy only has a few lines, but.....then goes on to say that most of them were just oh no, oh no, I'm a maiden, and things like that. We don't know the exact amount. I just kind of figure it's Sansa because that would be the dramatic thing, Sansa in the real world doesn't have an ending to be written for the play, they can probably have evil Tyrion marry her, rape her, and lock her up like the Jeyne Poole F/Arya storyline or yes, have her turn into a winged whatever and fly away after the purple wedding. Then again, I suppose she could be maiden number 2 of Tyrion's rapes, but I doubt it. Where is the edge in that? Either way, not much dialogue needed.

[Maia]

Rorge threatened to rape (and then murder) Arya back when she was 10, so yea, not sure why the surprise? And, of course, she saw women seducing the soldiers and being raped by them when a prisoner of the Mountain, in Harrenhal, etc. and when she was a fish-seller in Braavos, she went in and put of brothels and was friendly with whores. There is zero mystery re: her being somewhat knowledgeable about seduction and it is not like Raff was a difficult target.

I kinda thought that Arya had something like a razor hidden in her sleeve, with which she cut Raff's femoral artery. She was shaving her head, yes? She had to have a razor. And as has been already mentioned, she started carrying knives on her person for self-defense when she was blind. I doubt that she could hide Needle in her sleeve.

Nor am I sure why Arya is seen as darker and more damaged than various males who have started killing people at an early age and are seen as bad-ass. Heck, some people can't wait for Rickon (!) to start killng people and/or feeding them to his wolf. And rhapsodize about his impending savagery and fierceness.

Arya is not in a good place right now, but far from irredeemable, IMHO. Nor is she Dexter - she is not driven to kill for the thrill of it. Just for surival, revenge,when she feels that they deserve it and when ordered by the Faceless Men. But that also comes under survival while learning the means to retain her agency, really. She doesn't want to be at the mercy of the Mountains of this world again, and personally, I can't blame her for it.

Re: innoncent Bolton guard - do we see prisoners of war who kill their guards to escape as irredeemable? Because Bolton told Arya that he was going to leave her with the Bloody Mummmers, one of whom (2, really, with Biter) has already promised to rape and murder her! Seriously, why do people harp on the guard's "innocence"? It was a clear "kill or be (hideously!) murdered situation.

And now to something completely different - if Braavos is farrher north than KL, isn't it a it too warm there currently? arya is very lightly dressed and while she is a hardy northener, noody seems to omment on it either. It was snowing in KL when Kevan was killed, after all.

Re: nicknames in the troupe - surely The Snapper is also one? So, it isn't true that "Lady Stork" would have been the only one going by a nickname.

Tywin in Lys - IMHO, it must have happened after Aerys refused his offer of Cersei. Afterwards, the king must have sent him to look for a wife for Rhaegar, to rub it in. And Lys, of course, used to be the place where Blackfyres lived after their exile from Westeros. When Tywin failed to locate a suitable female Blackfyre, Aerys must have decided that his Hand had failed on purpose and turned to his cousin Lord Steffon Baratheon instead. Maybe we'll hear something about this trip from Genna - if Baratheons were any guide, Tywin may have needed to have a woman of rank at hand for somethink like that, and he was already widowed at that point.

Heck, maybe the whole Duskendale thing blew up while Tywin was away at Lys and Aerys was left to his own devices?

[butterbumps!]

In other words, we both think that Tywin wasn't sent to Lys to fetch Varys. We just differ in our reasons why Aerys didn't do that (I say it was a bad political move, you say it was because Varys would be operating out of Pentos, not Lys).

Yea, I think this is still a possibility, but it might be debunked by learning Varys wasn't in Lys at that time. We know Illyrio was in Pentos, but we don't know Varys' whereabouts necessarily.

Yes, but someone mentioned how Arya ( mercy ) life sort of mirrored Jeyne as Jeyne is acting as Arya.

I think that was me-- but it was in the context of the role of "Mercy", not the character Arya plays in the play, though. I said that Jeyne Poole as "Arya" was being mirrored by Arya playing a "Jeyne Poole-like" character, but not in the the play-- in the life roles they each took.

As in, posters commented that the role of Mercy (as the girl mummer who lives in that little room) seems Sansa-like, but I was saying it reminds me more of Jeyne.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

Even if we go by flowering she hasn't flowered yet.

She could be wrong about when but either way she looks like a child now. She's not one of those overly developed young kids. Plus, she suffered malnutrition for a while so who knows what that did.

I've never seen any do that.

And, I think we've covered the ground. It's going to take some actual books to have the answer of the when she flowers, I'm willing to wait on that and just consider the differing possibilities for now. For myself, I am curious to know the answer, is she or isnt' she on the cusp of flowering. Or, just like psychological trauma can stop a period in a lady of more years, I wonder.......will it come to the point that Arya, for a psychological reason.....somehow even prevents her first flowering. I'm doubing that, unless GRRM wants to torture us with never having any answers to these type of questions.

[ARYa_Nym]

Nor am I sure why Arya is seen as darker and more damaged than various males who have started killing people at an early age and are seen as bad-ass. Heck, some people can't wait for Rickon (!) to start killng people and/or feeding them to his wolf. And rhapsodize about his impending savagery and fierceness.

Arya is not in a good place right now, but far from irredeemable, IMHO. Nor is she Dexter - she is not driven to kill for the thrill of it. Just for surival, revenge,when she feels that they deserve it and when ordered by the Faceless Men. But that also comes under survival while learning the means to retain her agency, really. She doesn't want to be at the mercy of the Mountains of this world again, and personally, I can't blame her for it.

Re: innoncent Bolton guard - do we see prisoners of war who kill their guards to escape as irredeemable? Because Bolton told Arya that he was going to leave her with the Bloody Mummmers, one of whom (2, really, with Biter) has already promised to rape and murder her! Seriously, why do people harp on the guard's "innocence"? It was a clear "kill or be (hideously!) murdered situation.

That's what I mentioned about the sympathetic circumstances. She definitely had a motive to do it. I don't think it qualifies as murder but it's questionable.

I totally agree on the vs. male character thing. If she needs to die by the logic of some they need to die too. "Redemption" arcs or no.

[Veltigar]

Tywin in Lys - IMHO, it must have happened after Aerys refused his offer of Cersei. Afterwards, the king must have sent him to look for a wife for Rhaegar, to rub it in. And Lys, of course, used to be the place where Blackfyres lived after their exile from Westeros. When Tywin failed to locate a suitable female Blackfyre, Aerys must have decided that his Hand had failed on purpose and turned to his cousin Lord Steffon Baratheon instead. Maybe we'll hear something about this trip from Genna - if Baratheons were any guide, Tywin may have needed to have a woman of rank at hand for somethink like that, and he was already widowed at that point.

Heck, maybe the whole Duskendale thing blew up while Tywin was away at Lys and Aerys was left to his own devices?

The Blackfyres fled to Tyrosh. Tywin and Steffon were obviously lookng for descendants of Aerion Brightflame. He lived in exile in Lys for a (lengthy) period of time. He has a trueborn son (canon since he's mentioned in ACOK) that is still unaccounted for + we know from an SSM that he probably left some bastards behind in Lys.

[Chebyshov]

And, I think we've covered the ground. It's going to take some actual books to have the answer of the when she flowers, I'm willing to wait on that and just consider the differing possibilities for now. For myself am curious to know the answer, is she or isnt' she on the cusp of flowering. Or, just like psychological trauma can stop a period in a lady of more years, I wonder.......will it come to the point that Arya, for a psychological reason.....somehow even prevents her first flowering. I'm doubing that, unless GRRM wants to torture us with never having any answers to these type of questions.

In the chapter it had a line where she told the guards she was a maiden, then "(she lied)." Pretty sure that was talking about her flowering. Also assuming Westerosians don't drink milk full of hormones like we do here, it's unlikely girls would get their periods before 13 or 14.

[Ygrain]

I kinda thought that Arya had something like a razor hidden in her sleeve, with which she cut Raff's femoral artery. She was shaving her head, yes? She had to have a razor. And as has been already mentioned, she started carrying knives on her person for self-defense when she was blind. I doubt that she could hide Needle in her sleeve.

That's what I think, as well.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

In the chapter it had a line where she told the guards she was a maiden, then "(she lied)." Pretty sure that was talking about her flowering. Also assuming Westerosians don't drink milk full of hormones like we do here, it's unlikely girls would get their periods before 13 or 14.

And, when did Sansa get hers? Much younger than that. My whole point was not that she has flowered, that I think she may be on the cusp of flowering, damn soon. It was also vaguely mentioned by another in the first thread, I'm not debating that fact that she hasn't flowered yet.

ETA: Actually, I'm not debating anything, I'm just putting forward some ideas.

[TheCrannogDweller]

And now to something completely different - if Braavos is farrher north than KL, isn't it a it too warm there currently? arya is very lightly dressed and while she is a hardy northener, noody seems to omment on it either. It was snowing in KL when Kevan was killed, after all.

I think Braavos is supposed to be opposite Gulltown in the Vale, so yes, it is farther North than King's Landing.

[Pod The Impaler]

I don't understand why many are acting as if GRRM committed an act of betrayal. After everything Arya has seen, it's not surprising to me at all that she is well aware of what men like Raff do. It's also not surprising that an actor would try to grope his co-star. In both cases Arya rejected the advances (threatening the dwarf she would kill him and then pushing Raff away after he kissed her and then killing him). There have been countless young girls who have gone through much worse in this universe. Arya is able to defend herself unlike many of those girls.

Just so.

Rorge threatened to rape (and then murder) Arya back when she was 10, so yea, not sure why the surprise? And, of course, she saw women seducing the soldiers and being raped by them when a prisoner of the Mountain, in Harrenhal, etc. and when she was a fish-seller in Braavos, she went in and put of brothels and was friendly with whores. There is zero mystery re: her being somewhat knowledgeable about seduction and it is not like Raff was a difficult target.

I kinda thought that Arya had something like a razor hidden in her sleeve, with which she cut Raff's femoral artery. She was shaving her head, yes? She had to have a razor. And as has been already mentioned, she started carrying knives on her person for self-defense when she was blind. I doubt that she could hide Needle in her sleeve.

Nor am I sure why Arya is seen as darker and more damaged than various males who have started killing people at an early age and are seen as bad-ass. Heck, some people can't wait for Rickon (!) to start killng people and/or feeding them to his wolf. And rhapsodize about his impending savagery and fierceness.

Yup. Arya knows exactly what sort of man Raff is.

As well, think back to her encounter with Sam - when the one bravo threatens her, she produces a knife from her sleeve and warns him some cats have claws.

She is good at this sort of thing. A natural killer. Think back to all the boasts / confessions of those who first killed at a young age, and realize she is in their league.

[Lord Varys]

We should not take it a given that Tywin's travels to Lys had anything to do with Rhaegar's bride. There are tons of reasons why Tywin could have had business in Lys, economic, political, and so forth. I'm pretty sure Tywin was not tasked with finding a bride for Rhaegar after Steffon's death.

Braavos is on the same altitude as the Fingers, if I'm not mistaken. That pretty far north. And they have trouble with winter and cold. The canals are already freezing in ADwD.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

Nor am I sure why Arya is seen as darker and more damaged than various males who have started killing people at an early age and are seen as bad-ass. Heck, some people can't wait for Rickon (!) to start killng people and/or feeding them to his wolf. And rhapsodize about his impending savagery and fierceness.

I'm thinking it's because of general statements like The Kindly Man's about women bringing life into the world, not death. But yes, good point on the Rickon analogy. Personally, I think The Skagosi may be the most civilized people around and being raised by a wilding, a direwolf, and the Skagosi will make Rickon the most well adjusted Stark child. I like that idea, anyway.

[Pod The Impaler]

CRACKPOT THEORY:

April 1st is but a few days away - what if this sample chapter is actually an elaborate April Fool's Day joke by GRRM, and in the real Arya chapters this does not take place?

[The Human Abstract]

No.

[jarl the climber]

I don't think the FM would need her help for that. Plus it would be bad for her business if her customers ended up getting whacked by FM while they are with her.

My take is that besides the fact that Ser Harys is a dirty old man is that if he was not with a high dollar courtesan it would make him seem of small account, being able to afford the Black Pearl raises him up in the eyes of the Bravossi, or at least that might be what he thinks.

[Pod The Impaler]

No.

Ah well, it would've been funny. We'd all have a truckload of egg on our face.

[FittleLinger]

My take is that besides the fact that Ser Harys is a dirty old man is that if he was not with a high dollar courtesan it would make him seem of small account, being able to afford the Black Pearl raises him up in the eyes of the Bravossi, or at least that might be what he thinks.

This, plus the fact that he will go "beginng" the IB for money, he might think that this stature of wealth makes him sorta reliable. You know, like the banker with the Rolex trick.

[Pod The Impaler]

My take is that besides the fact that Ser Harys is a dirty old man is that if he was not with a high dollar courtesan it would make him seem of small account, being able to afford the Black Pearl raises him up in the eyes of the Bravossi, or at least that might be what he thinks.

I agree. The man has to look the part of an important emissary, one of the top men from the Iron Throne, not a beggar in rags pleading for alms.

[Pod The Rod]

Nor am I sure why Arya is seen as darker and more damaged than various males who have started killing people at an early age and are seen as bad-ass. Heck, some people can't wait for Rickon (!) to start killng people and/or feeding them to his wolf. And rhapsodize about his impending savagery and fierceness.

Arya is not in a good place right now, but far from irredeemable, IMHO. Nor is she Dexter - she is not driven to kill for the thrill of it. Just for surival, revenge,when she feels that they deserve it and when ordered by the Faceless Men. But that also comes under survival while learning the means to retain her agency, really. She doesn't want to be at the mercy of the Mountains of this world again, and personally, I can't blame her for it.

Re: innoncent Bolton guard - do we see prisoners of war who kill their guards to escape as irredeemable? Because Bolton told Arya that he was going to leave her with the Bloody Mummmers, one of whom (2, really, with Biter) has already promised to rape and murder her! Seriously, why do people harp on the guard's "innocence"? It was a clear "kill or be (hideously!) murdered situation.

And now to something completely different - if Braavos is farrher north than KL, isn't it a it too warm there currently? arya is very lightly dressed and while she is a hardy northener, noody seems to omment on it either. It was snowing in KL when Kevan was killed, after all.

I keep trying to point this out and people keep ignoring me for some reason- ARYA IS NOT BEYOND REDEMPTION HERE. You are absolutely correct. I don't even see her as a sociopath, necessarily. Has anyone considered that she may just be doing, albeit at an extreme level, what Jaime advised Tommen to do- "go away inside"? She's simply seen and suffered so much, that it will take something very major to break her out of her self constructed shell and return her to something vaguely resembling the person she once was (imo, meeting Jon, the one person she cares about).

With regard to the seasons- remember, people, the seasons in ASOIAF are magically deriven and have something to do with the Others. Essos, unlike Westeros, is not facing an impending Others invasion. Therefore, it could still be the height of summer there. Just a thought.