Wmarshal Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 Ned does hold grudges. Reread the parts where he thinks of the Lannisters, Jaime especially, and the Mountain.I agree in that they were better educated politically-speaking, so should have known of the possible ramifications. And the way Rickard and Brandon died just underlines that.He holds no grudges to Aerys, a man that killed his father and brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wmarshal Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 Aerys challenged the other lords to unmask the knight that evening, so he was already drumming up interest in the scandal. After the KoLT seemed to disappear, Aerys ordered Rhaegar to find him as a formal mission, but it seems that Rhaegar wasn't the only one looking out for him (Aerys was furious, and I'd assume many lords would see this as an opportunity to curry favor). I'm not sure how I feel about this possibility-- that the abduction was really a rescue mission of the KotLT, who'd be caught-- but that's the basic idea.The abduction happened 6 months after Harrenhal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotcat Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 The last thread on this got locked...let's not go there again. We're missing so many details that I'd be hesitant to rush to any judgement calls. Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanna Stormborn Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 I dont understand the timeline for Rhaegar. How could he possibly have been in KL 9 months after the Tourney to see Aegon being born (or right after he was born) in Dany's vision? Lyanna only had her baby 5 months after Elia had Aegon right? Did Rhaegar run-off with Lyanna, then come back to KL to see Aegon born, then run-off with her again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygrain Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 He holds no grudges to Aerys, a man that killed his father and brother. "the mad king had ordered his last mad act" is not exactly a laudatory statement. The abduction happened 6 months after Harrenhal. I dont understand the timeline for Rhaegar. How could he possibly have been in KL 9 months after the Tourney to see Aegon being born (or right after he was born) in Dany's vision? Lyanna only had her baby 5 months after Elia had Aegon right? Did Rhaegar run-off with Lyanna, then come back to KL to see Aegon born, then run-off with her again? There was about a year between the tourney and the abduction, and the Rebellion lasted about a year, as well. Aegon was born shortly before the abduction and was about a year old when murdered, and Jon was born at the end of the Rebellion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanna Stormborn Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 "the mad king had ordered his last mad act" is not exactly a laudatory statement. There was about a year between the tourney and the abduction, and the Rebellion lasted about a year, as well. Aegon was born shortly before the abduction and was about a year old when murdered, and Jon was born at the end of the Rebellion. OK Thank you. Locking that in :) makes much more sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wmarshal Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Ned still held no grudge against him, Aerys was mad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parizad Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 I find Dany's view of what happened interesting too. She wasn't alive at the time, but would have heard of it from Viserys, who in turn, can only have heard of it second-hand. She thinks Rhaegar did kidnap Lyanna at sword point (and thinks it romantic!) so I wonder if that was the accepted account in Kings Landing, and the one which Brandon heard. Ned may have got a different account from Lyanna, as she was dying.o The sword may have been pointed at the guards of WF not Lyanna herself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corbon Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 The sword may have been pointed at the guards of WF not Lyanna herself More importantly, Dany has an extremely dubious link to the actual event. In order for her to have that knowledge from someone who was actually present, we basically have to assume that Rhaegar told his mom, who told Viserys, who told Dany. It seems considerably more likely to me, that Dany (or someone before her, like Viserys for example) is just putting a positive Targaryen spin on the official King Bob story out of Westeros ("Rhaegar adbucted Lyanna!"). Perhaps with the additional information that Rhaegar loved Lyanna (far more likely to have been passed down to her than details of the actual 'abduction'). I don't think we should consider Dany's musings on this event as 'something we know'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaynsa Starne Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 How certain are we that Jaime's version of events are accurate? He witnessed the murders of Rickard and Brandon, so I think we can assume that there's nothing wrong with his rendition of those events specifically. But was Jaime actually at the gates of the Red Keep and did he actually hear Brandon demand for Rhaegar to come out and die? Couldn't those have just been accusations on Aerys' part in order to justify a trial, and Jaime received no other version of what may have happened? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bael's Bastard Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 Ned still held no grudge against him, Aerys was mad. It is not as if "mad" is something he was diagnosed with by a professional with no emotional bias, it is something those that rebelled against him, removed him from the throne, and have written the history ever since refer to him as. I wouldn't be so quick to assume Ned's use of the term is without hostility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corbon Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 How certain are we that Jaime's version of events are accurate? He witnessed the murders of Rickard and Brandon, so I think we can assume that there's nothing wrong with his rendition of those events specifically. But was Jaime actually at the gates of the Red Keep and did he actually hear Brandon demand for Rhaegar to come out and die? Couldn't those have just been accusations on Aerys' part in order to justify a trial, and Jaime received no other version of what may have happened? Its possible. But its the only information we have on the subject, we have no valid reason to assume its false, it does not actively mis-fit with any other information and the source has no apparent bias. While we must always keep in mind that we may learn something new that causes us to question this, at the moment, if we can't accept this at face value for now then there is nothing anywhere in the series we can accpet at face value. For now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRANDON GREYSTARK Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 (JON ,YOU KNOW NOTHING.) In reality we know nothing about Rhaegar and Lyanna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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