A Balanced Review of Show Stannis [Book Spoilers]

[Stan the Man Baratheon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_dXkxy2QWY&list=PLdyYtz46Nolb1ovYhSOnbIYFktNHfZUkR&index=17

At 1:09, you can see the Magnar vs Jon and his thenns around him. So the bad wildlings are going to be dead before Stannis makes his glorious charge.

[Dustdevil]

They might make Mance a little less sympathetic though, as in he doesn't accept Jon's peace terms. After all he did betray them and mance can easily crush them. Why give up now?

[The Abominable SnowOther]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_dXkxy2QWY&list=PLdyYtz46Nolb1ovYhSOnbIYFktNHfZUkR&index=17

At 1:09, you can see the Magnar vs Jon and his thenns around him. So the bad wildlings are going to be dead before Stannis makes his glorious charge.

yah! but thats mostly cuz they didnt cast enough "baddies" technically the Magnar did die before Stannis arrived at the Wall, and of course theyre gonna have Jon off him off, you know

We gotta just hope for a baddass "coming of the Mannis" during the jonmance parlay

[Stan the Man Baratheon]

But you know Stannis need not needed to kill bad guys to start his redemption, in the books. In the show he is pushed as a full-fledged fanatic by D&D's imagination. So they will have to pull of something like him killing very bad guys to redeem himself. But that's not happening now.

[The Drunkard]

I think the very fact that these 'bad' sort of wildlings exist, that they aren't all Ygrittes and Tormunds, is enough to make the charge seem heroic, and with Jon hyping up Mance to the NW all throughout the season, as well as Mole's Town getting destroyed, I'd be surprised if they made the charge look bad.

Especially if they have the cart before the horse conversation in Braavos, but who knows if they'd do something like that.

[The Abominable SnowOther]

hmmm, well, they kinda portray Mance as a neither, good or bad, so maybe he offs him(people are tossing the idea around that they might cancel the fArya plotline, i doubt it though) but even if he did he wold just burn him probably. Back to square one...

Wouldnt, Just being in Braavos, give it away?

[Dustdevil]

Yeah but still think about it guys: Would Mance make a truce with Jon even though Jon already betrayed him before? Also if the NW manages to fend off all of the Wildling attacks why would Maester Aemon have bothered sending out letters to all the Kings of Westeros for help? My guess is it's going to play out like this: The NW manages to defeat the southern attack of the Wildlings but with heavy losses (Thorne and countless others). They hold their ground against the giants and the attacks of the Wildings coming from the North through the gate but lose even more (Grenn). Eventually they don't have a choice but to surrender to Mance. Jon, as acting commander, goes to parlay with Mance but he refuses, saying that he could easily crush them and take the wall, why stop now?

And in that moment: Stannis! Stannis! Stannis!

I also hope we see Melisandre burning Orell's eagle too.

Edit: I guess my point is: we don't need Stannis killing baddies to start his redemption arc. All the audience needs is for him to save some of their favorite characters from certain death (Jon, Sam, Maester Aemon) after their other favorite characters have died (Grenn).

[Khal-a-bunga]

This "rumor" has absolutely no source, let alone a credible source. It's pure conjecture. Probably something he read on a message board. It's probably from this message board, actually.

[Stan the Man Baratheon]

I also hope we see Melisandre burning Orell's eagle too.

I am certain that's happening. Except it would be an Owl this time around.

[Mithras]

I think the very fact that these 'bad' sort of wildlings exist, that they aren't all Ygrittes and Tormunds, is enough to make the charge seem heroic, and with Jon hyping up Mance to the NW all throughout the season, as well as Mole's Town getting destroyed, I'd be surprised if they made the charge look bad.

Especially if they have the cart before the horse conversation in Braavos, but who knows if they'd do something like that.

TV show Tormund sucks. We cannot see the fact that he likes Jon and Jon likes him.

[Stan the Man Baratheon]

TV show Tormund sucks. We cannot see the fact that he likes Jon and Jon likes him.

TV Tormund might die. In the same video i linked upthread. Neil Marshal talks about a ferocious sword fight between Tormund and Alliser. One will surely die, if it is indeed a ferocious sword fight.

[Ran]

It'll be Thorne, I'm fairly sure.

[Ty K]

It'll be Thorne, I'm fairly sure.

That is disappointing if true. I like his portrayal on the show a lot. Doesn't he need to live long enough to arrest Jon and send him after Mance? I don't feel like Janos Slynt would have the authority to do that on his own,

[Thelastactionhero]

This "rumor" has absolutely no source, let alone a credible source. It's pure conjecture. Probably something he read on a message board. It's probably from this message board, actually.

Yeah cause I totally argued that this rumor was gospel truth? To be frank with you though, it's the sort of dickish thing I could actually see the show runners doing because of how poorly they'ved handled Stannis' character at this point in the series. They've changed the context of other events in his character arc in a way that makes him look a good deal more evil than he is in the books, so why not his moment at the Wall too?

[Rashtibram]

Yeah, I'm late to the discussion, but all this talk of "Show-Stannis is a villain" seems to me to be ultimately unfounded. He hasn't been portrayed as a villain at all: Melisandre has, and Stannis has been shown to be more in her thrall than he was at this point in the books. The portrayal has been marginally different, and it might undoubtedly be a bad decision on D&D's part to focus more on Mel than on Stannis and Davos, but a "redemption" arc is in no way impossible at this point. Stannis is ultimately a "good guy" with some morally questionable traits, in the show as well as the books, and I think his scenes in 4x02 illustrated that well ("I hate a good many things, but I suffer them all the same").

My Unsullied friends generally dislike Stannis, but it's not because they think he's a villain or a monster: they say his personality rubs them the wrong way, and to be honest his personality is one thing the show has adapted very faithfully.

[Mithras]

It'll be Thorne, I'm fairly sure.

I was thinking that they might skip Bowen and continue with Thorne as the main antagonist of Jon. It is true that after Jon beheaded Slynt, Thorne backed down and all the whining was left to Bowen. Still, while Thorne was going to his last ranging, I felt like he will return and cause more trouble.

[Guard of the Rainking]

It'll be Thorne, I'm fairly sure.

Most likely. Haven't they said, that a character who is still alive in the books will be killed this season?

[Mithras]

Most likely. Haven't they said, that a character who is still alive in the books will be killed this season?

Axell Florent is still alive in the books but Stannis burned him last Episode.

[The Onion Sleight]

(I'm in a hurry, so excuse grammar / spelling mistakes)

I really hope Thorne stays alive :frown5: , he's so good on the show!

I don't think he (Stannis) has to kill all the baddies to start redeeming.
Showing his motivations and giving us our dutiful Book!Stannis would be much nicer (I'd prefer more dialogues over too many killing scenes).
I think, Jon'll have his "The Wall is yours, Jon Snow!" moment like Tyrion had his "soldiers cyring "Halfman! Halfman!"" moment in "Blackwater" and Stannis'll have an amazing deus-ex-machina-like (postive!) moment like Tywin had in the same episode (remember: Cersei was ready to poison Tommen and herself, but in the last moment her father shows up, rides self-confidently in the throne room, Loras doffs his helmet [so we understand suddenly, ah okay, these fighing guys are Tyrell army], Tywin says, they've won, he saves the day, Cersei’s happy, epic "Rains of Castamere" music).
I'm hoping, we'll see Stan saving the day, riding self-confidently and badass-stylish to the NW, surprising them with his presence, saying some epic sentence after the battle's won, incredible-awesome music theme (extra for him and this episode).
I'm not giving up hope yet about Ep. 9, and yeah, there're still 6 episodes before 4.09.

*still trying to raise my and our all hopes*

So, I want to come back to earlier events and Braavos for a moment:
I always throught they would create ambiguilty by showing the Iron Bank rejects Stannis' and Davos' request for a loan (because Tywin's still alive, the Crown's still paying their debts) and we would leave them in Ep. 6 or 7 with a scene of "We haven't enough people to help, we're would risk an immense default and maybe losing our last remaining men." and then the Unsullied wouldn't know if they're giving up their idea (no gold -> no sellswords and soldiers -> very small army compared to Mance's; the threat of the Others is in the background, other fights seem more important) or not.

But now, I'm thinking, that we'll maybe see the IBoB more keen of Stannis and his cause and they'll maybe extends a warmer welcome to him than everybody’d assume, because of all this talking about the Crown's problems with the Bank, Tywin's and Olenna's chat last episode and that they'll maybe refuse their paying earlier than expected.
Then the IBoB would be more pro-Stan much earlier than in the books and it'd be interesting to see how that would effect him and his fate.

(Even in the books yet, we don't really know how the bank's support will effect the TWOW events and what will really happen after the Theon sample). That'd create an "Iron Bank propostions him to attack KL again" situation (I tkink they'd be more supportive of this idea than the Wall idea) and a better scenario.
Not only, because we'd have the ambiguilty, too - the Unsullied might see him thoughtful, struggling / doubtful, conflicted because of "Trying to win the throne to save the kingdom vs. Trying to save the kingdom to win the throne" (as I said before), and not only because of military weakness / less gold, men... .
Want do you think? Will they (Tycho & Co.) just say "Nah, sorry, we still have the Crown, we won't support you" or could it be that they'll more "Well, the Crown is not willing to pay, so we turn to you... Hey, do you still want to take the city?..."? (Even with their money for sellswords & stuff, it'd still be a very risky attack, for the NW would come very help too late, he wouldn't become "the King who still cares", aso... So going to the Wall would be the best decision, but people'd have to wait to Ep. 9 to see the result of his decision ;-)

Another small question, btw: Do you think Davos will go together with the others to Castle Black before his Manderly-mission?
I know it's actually a pretty unnecessary detour sailing to Eastwatch-by-the-Sea, then riding to Castle Black, then (in Season 5) riding back to Eastwatch-by-the-Sea and travelling to White Habor (with an unplanned stopover at Sweet Sister), but I could imagine this change on show (I mean, if Stannis has this idea with White Habor later than in the books?).
Because I'd love to see Stan giving this mission to Davos on-screen and maybe a Davos / Jon meeting :)

[Señor de la Tormenta]

Yeah cause I totally argued that this rumor was gospel truth? To be frank with you though, it's the sort of dickish thing I could actually see the show runners doing because of how poorly they'ved handled Stannis' character at this point in the series. They've changed the context of other events in his character arc in a way that makes him look a good deal more evil than he is in the books, so why not his moment at the Wall too?

if the rumor comes from my earlier post in this thread, it has no basis. it was just a guess of the kind of stuff D&D are likely to do in their Anti Stannis campaign.

I have no inside info whatsoever.

PD: Im confused with Thorne....I feel they gave him the Noye stuff to cut characters so I dont know what to expect from him.