Stark vs Stark

[Mladen]

Are you counting the Skagosi and Neckmen? I see neither entering this fight.

Yeah, entire strength of North would be between 20 and 30 000. Also, with Howland bound to appear some time, and Rickon being at Skagos, I wouldn't say they won't get involved in any fight. But again, there will never be Dance of direwolves.

[Wmarshal]

Yeah, entire strength of North would be between 20 and 30 000. Also, with Howland bound to appear some time, and Rickon being at Skagos, I wouldn't say they won't get involved in any fight. But again, there will never be Dance of direwolves.

Likely not, be it the most influence baring Northmen knows Rickon is alive.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

there will never be Dance of direwolves.

That sounds so... cute.

[TheNorth's1stKnight]

If we are presuming neither lets the other or one of there siblings have winterfell, then i would go Jon, presuming he has at least the full strength of the north behind him. LF would probably be able to muster about double the manpower Jon could, between the full power of the Vale and what remains of the Riverlands' strength (far worse than the north right now) but if Jon sat back and defended Moat Cailin, he would probably defeat LF, since we never hear of the Vale have any large, Redwynesque fleet, all the Riverlands seem to have is the small navy of the Mallisters. Hardly enough to invade the North by sea, and hardly enough to defeat the Manderly fleet, which is one of the strongest in westeros right now.

Unless he does what victarion did and sends ships up the fever river and at the same time sends men up the causeway and flanks moat cailin I'm sure it can be taken with the amount of men they have compared the north

[Sir Lee knot]

how many of those men are actually bolton men though?

I don't know, three thousand at most but probably more like 1500.

I think the advantages of the Vale is that they have a pit of fierce Knights like if most armies have 5% knights I'd bet that they have 10%. The riverlands hardly have anything left. They can maybe bring 8-10k to the table. I know Edmure had 12k back in the day but a lot of people have died since then.

The Northern advantages will be that it's winter so they are more experienced in the climate and most of their units will be good for stealth combat. Guerilla warfare/hit and run tactics.

[AryaNymeriaVisenya]

The only way Sansa gets the Vale would be marrying Harry. It would therefore be Harry using Sansas claim to get the North. Like Ramsey only with a real Stark. Therefore I think the North would tell her to go back to the Eyrie

[Wmarshal]

The only way Sansa gets the Vale would be marrying Harry. It would therefore be Harry using Sansas claim to get the North. Like Ramsey only with a real Stark. Therefore I think the North would tell her to go back to the Eyrie

For Jon the bastard who broke the most sacred bond in the North?

[Mladen]

That sounds so... cute.

And I stand behind every word of it :)

For Jon the bastard who broke the most sacred bond in the North?

The most sacred bond in the North? Come on... Even Robb wanted to find out to take Jon out of NW, and his lords agreed. There is a will with Jon's name. NW oaths doesn't mean much to North.

[jons nissa]

i don't see sansa getting the vale. that will remain with sweet robin who will probably die at the ripe old age of 80 with a belly full of wine and a breast in his mouth. some habits are hard to kick :P

winterfell will most likely go to one of the boys since there's still so many of them alive at the moment. sansa will support them from king's landing. as for a dance of direwolves, while it seems unlikely, i will not say never. the dance of the dragons didn't begin by both contenders saying "i want the throne" right away. strange things tend to happen in westeros. :(

[Wmarshal]

And I stand behind every word of it :)

The most sacred bond in the North? Come on... Even Robb wanted to find out to take Jon out of NW, and his lords agreed. There is a will with Jon's name. NW oaths doesn't mean much to North.

Yeah it does, a guy froze to death because his dad sent him back. The North and Wall are heavily connected.

[TheNorth's1stKnight]

I don't know, three thousand at most but probably more like 1500.

I think the advantages of the Vale is that they have a pit of fierce Knights like if most armies have 5% knights I'd bet that they have 10%. The riverlands hardly have anything left. They can maybe bring 8-10k to the table. I know Edmure had 12k back in the day but a lot of people have died since then.

The Northern advantages will be that it's winter so they are more experienced in the climate and most of their units will be good for stealth combat. Guerilla warfare/hit and run tactics.

Their biggest advantage is moat cailin too. that's the only way to the north and I don't think the riverlands or the vale has enough ships to transport that large of an army to land somewhere else

[Lord Lyman]

NW oaths doesn't mean much to North.

And yet the first chapter saw Eddard Stark behead a man for breaking his Night's Watch oath

[Mladen]

Yeah it does, a guy froze to death because his dad sent him back. The North and Wall are heavily connected.

They are heavily connected due to geographical closeness, and the common enemy in the wildlings. But, overall, it's nothing special.

And yet the first chapter saw Eddard Stark behead a man for breaking his Night's Watch oath

Ned was Warden of the North, and according to the laws of Westeros, it was on him to kill the deserter. If by some chance that deserter had managed to get to South, some of the Highlords would order to kill him. Ned was doing his duty towards Kingdom, not the Wall.

[the conquoring bastard25]

while I can't say that a dance of wolves won't happen. As there are at least 3 contenders for the throne of Winterfell, Jon, Sansa and Rickon. I don't place Ayra and Bran there as Ayra is over seas and Bran's a tree and more than like going to spend the rest of his days either beyond the wall or the God's eye.

With that being said. It just seems wrong that you have got 3 contenders and then they work it out in 5 mins. Not to say that there has to be bloodshed, but at least some contention from their various factions before peace is declared.

[evita mgfs]

I love the expression "dance of direwolves". I agree that Stark siblings will not battle over Winterfell. I see Winterfell as the "starting point" of great symbolic significance, and Martin, in his final novel in the series, will likely return to the "beginning", homebase for the Starks, and, in turn, all the Stark kiddoes, their parents, and their wolves from AGoT will return HOME - in one form or another,

[Sir Lee knot]

I was hoping that this wouldn't become a debate on whether or not it would happen. I just wanted to hear the arguments people have for either side.

[Good Guy Garlan]

If Sansa has the Vale and the Riverlands, my money is on her

[the conquoring bastard25]

The riverlands might not be her's, she has some things going against her that Jon doesn't.

For starters she's a woman.

She's married first to the Imp and then the Harry.

If she invades the Riverlands or the North she would be an invading force, because it would be her husband and his knights that are fighting this fight she'd just be attaching her name to the enterprise.

Next the blackfish seems more likely to side with Robb and his will that name Jon as heir to the Kingdom, which the Trident and it's lords are sworn to.

Then there is the littlefinger factor, I doubt that the riverlords would except to kindly to being ruled over in all but name by an upjump upstart social climber like littlefinger, many of whom won't have forgotten the beating he took by Brandon Stark.

[Twenty of House Goodmen]

Harry's forces has higher quality troops, more men, and possibly more experienced leadership. The problem they face is the neck and the northern winter, which may give Jon's forces victory, as long as he only engages the Vale army in the North.

[Sir Lee knot]

The riverlands might not be her's, she has some things going against her that Jon doesn't.

For starters she's a woman.

She's married first to the Imp and then the Harry.

If she invades the Riverlands or the North she would be an invading force, because it would be her husband and his knights that are fighting this fight she'd just be attaching her name to the enterprise.

Next the blackfish seems more likely to side with Robb and his will that name Jon as heir to the Kingdom, which the Trident and it's lords are sworn to.

Then there is the littlefinger factor, I doubt that the riverlords would except to kindly to being ruled over in all but name by an upjump upstart social climber like littlefinger, many of whom won't have forgotten the beating he took by Brandon Stark.

The LF point is true but you forget that he is like a background guy. Sansa is basically the tool. She has a bloodclaim to the north and the Riverlands. Sure she isn't Edmure Tully but LF can simply claim that he is trying to put the Tullies back in power. As for the north the argument would be that Jon Snow is a jealous power hungry bastard who holds Rickon captive thus they must invade the north.