Talking Hodor Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 That's why I also totally need Dany and Stannis to meet. :D Pretty sure that would result in Stannis jerky and give Drogon a stomach ache. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thor2006 Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Thomas Jefferson and George Washington were slavers, too. Holding slaves in a slave holding society is a very low threshold for being randomly killed if you ask me. When the slavers are just as depraved as the ones in SB yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belisarius09 Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Then nothing would be justice because everyone takes an eye-eye approach in the world of ASOIAF. Not everyone. Not the Starks. Nothing would be justice because everyone does it? Just because one person jumps off a cliff doesn't mean you should join them. Conformity =/= an argument you want to make. Two wrongs don't make a right, an eye for an eye leaves the hold world blind. Revenge =/= justice. Its really not that complicated. TRUE, Westeros is for the most part a very unjust place. But that doesn't excuse your actions, just because people around you are begin shitty doesn't mean you get a blank check to be as shitty as you want too. Justice is rare, and thats a tragedy. Only the Starks and to a limited extent Stannis are just. When Dany does something unjust it should not be celebrated. It should be decried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metopheles Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Not everyone. Not the Starks. Please!?!?! They are like the biggest when it comes to eye for an eye moral :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belisarius09 Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 I just rewatched the scene. It was short but I wouldn't say "rushed." I mean, we see a nail go right through a hand. the music is dark. There is screaming. My sister hasn't read the books and she hated it. Likes Dany, but hates that she did it. I think it will have the intended effect (although in the books I'm pretty much of the opinion that this isn't a bad mark.) Eh that's iffy to me. There's really no due process at all in this world other than Tyrion's trial, and since we know he didn't do it that's not justice either. I don't remember Dany charting a constitution that says anything about due process or trials. She rules the city, she makes and enforces the laws, and she punished slavers for the deaths of children. It was justice.I agree the show did a good job for once of portraying the darkness of Dany's choice. Your second paragraph though..... You bring up due process in Tyrion's trial, and then say since we knew he didn't do it it wasn't really justice.... one step at a time here, are you talking about due process, or are you talking about justice? Justice means he receives due process. Justice doesn't mean the guilty party is always held accountable. As I've said before, just because there is a general lack of due process, or not many people practice it in the world of westeros doesn't mean it doesn't exist or make it ok. As Thomas Jefferson wrote in the declaration of independence, these are natural rights, "UNALIENABLE RIGHTS" they exist regardless if there's a written constitution spelling them out or not. They are not just some words on a piece of paper somewhere. These are rights we are all born with. We all have a right to due process. Just because Westeros doesn't have our constitution, enlightenment has taught us we all have these natural legal rights. You should understand this. Thus you should look at dany's decision with distaste. Like I said though, I agree with your first paragraph. The show did a good job of portraying the darkness of the scene. And thats what this thread was initially about. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belisarius09 Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Please!?!?! They are like the biggest when it comes to eye for an eye moral :lol: No. They aren't. A bolton flays a stark how do the starks respond? They grant a quick and painless death. They behead them. Eye for an eye would mean the starks flay the boltons right back. which they never do. Beheading NW deserters? They're enforcing the laws of the NW. Please, learn what an eye for an eye means. Come into this thread with at least two braincells next time before posting again. :P :D Hhhehhehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metopheles Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 No. They aren't. A bolton flays a stark how do the starks respond? They grant a quick and painless death. They behead them. Eye for an eye would mean the starks flay the boltons right back. which they never do. Beheading NW deserters? They're enforcing the laws of the NW. Please, learn what an eye for an eye means. Come into this thread with at least two braincells next time before posting again. :P :D Hhhehhehe Excuse me!? And how was Robb's childish warfare because his daddy got beheaded for treason not an eye for an eye logic? He wanted Joffrey's head. Stop the Stark bias. They are the same scum when it comes to such morals. I don't say they do the wrong thing, but I say they do the exact same thing as the Lannisters or Targaryens would do. The exact same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belisarius09 Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Excuse me!? And how was Robb's childish warfare because his daddy got beheaded for treason not an eye for an eye logic? He wanted Joffrey's head. Stop the Stark bias. They are the same scum when it comes to such morals. I don't say they do the wrong thing, but I say they do the exact same thing as the Lannisters or Targaryens would do. The exact same thing. (I've already said this multiple times so please don't make me repeat myself again. Just because someone else does something wrong, doesn't make it ok for you to do those wrong things too). But I digress. Want to debate specifics? Fine. I'll play your game, the outcome ultimately irrelevant for the reason stated above in parenthesis. I gave you several examples where they don't do the same thing. So they don't do the "exact" same thing. Please, learn what words mean. :P Debating you on the literature... they say Robb and Sansa were more Tully than they were Stark. :P Your move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metopheles Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 (I've already said this multiple times so please don't make me repeat myself again. Just because someone else does something wrong, doesn't make it ok for you to do those wrong things too). But I digress. Want to debate specifics? Fine. I'll play your game, the outcome ultimately irrelevant for the reason stated above in parenthesis. I gave you several examples where they don't do the same thing. So they don't do the "exact" same thing. Please, learn what words mean. :P Debating you on the literature... they say Robb and Sansa were more Tully than they were Stark. :P Your move. you are definitely a new level of the ignorant troll. And when someone writes "only Starks and Stannis are just"..well, can't be helped from there on. Just...how is burning a person just. This can only come from an ignorant fool who never felt what it is like to have part of your skin burned off. Or a monstrous wolf savaging soldiers. And those are only the methods, not even speaking of why they do it, the causes. But lecturing other people about how the actions of Daenerys are unjust and crazy, insane.. Have fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mankytoes Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 I'm pretty sure it wasn't that heavily emphasised in the books either. Dany just kicked some arse again, and her haters don't like it, again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seneti Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 I feel the point of the scene was just as much to establish Dany as a very emotional ruler, as it was to show her "evil moment" as OP calls it. In the previous episode Tywin was schooling Tommen on what makes a good king, and it wasn't a just king or someone who answers "injustice with justice", but one who listens to their advisers... And Dany doesn't really do that - in the show so far that is. Nice catch! This inside the episode pretty much confirms the fact that the showrunners were attempting to show her in a more nuanced light this episode. I still find the battles unrealistic, seeing as no innocents are killed on screen in any of these brutal revolutions, and think that Dany has been cheapened as a character due to whitewashing, but I am hopeful that we're on the right track towards getting closer to her much more compelling, much more interesting book counterpart: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kUejZLuJKM Thanks for this link. I'm continuously amazed by how well Emilia understands Dany. Every single time I saw her comment on a big Dany moment, she seems to nail it (no pun intended). I think they could, but they would both rather die than admit it I asume. :D Stannis: Invader!!! Dany: Usurper!!!!!!!!!!!! *proceed to kill each other* Davos: My king! Jorah: KHALEESI!!!!111eleven Melisandre + Selmy: *facepalm* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Guapo Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Stannis: Invader!!! Dany: Usurper!!!!!!!!!!!! *proceed to kill each other* Davos: My king! Jorah: KHALEESI!!!!111eleven Melisandre + Selmy: *facepalm* No. I see it more like this: Stannis: Usurper! Dany: No, you are the Usurper! Stannis: Kneel before your king! Dany" No. You kneel before your Queen! Stannis: I AM THE RIGHTFUL KING OF WESTEROS!!!! Dany: NO. I AM THE RIGHTFUL QUEEN OF WESTEROS!!!! Dany and Stannis start making out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Desmond Wine's Bane Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Please!?!?! They are like the biggest when it comes to eye for an eye moral :lol: Lannisters cut off a Stark's head. Starks don't cut off Jaime's head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormland's Fury Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 No. I see it more like this: Stannis: Usurper! Dany: No, you are the Usurper! Stannis: Kneel before your king! Dany" No. You kneel before your Queen! Stannis: I AM THE RIGHTFUL KING OF WESTEROS!!!! Dany: NO. I AM THE RIGHTFUL QUEEN OF WESTEROS!!!! Dany and Stannis start making out. That would be awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Desmond Wine's Bane Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 No. I see it more like this: Stannis: Usurper! Dany: No, you are the Usurper! Stannis: Kneel before your king! Dany" No. You kneel before your Queen! Stannis: I AM THE RIGHTFUL KING OF WESTEROS!!!! Dany: NO. I AM THE RIGHTFUL QUEEN OF WESTEROS!!!! Hound: Mmmmmmm Chickens..... Dany: WHERE ARE MY DRAGONS!?!?!?! Hound: *Burp* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ovis alba Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 A always wanted to say that:Still a better lovestory than Twilight :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metopheles Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Lannisters cut off a Stark's head. Starks don't cut off Jaime's head. Well, don't start at how awful they treated a valuable hostage, and he was treated by reasonable people, not like Joff treated Sansa..I mean he is the only one who mistreats her and no one wants that really. But treating Jaime that way? He is an awful person at that point and all, but how they did it was inhumane. Even for that time. But that doesn't fit. They cut Ned, the North wants Joffrey. if they would have gotten to him, they would have beheaded him. Eye for an eye. If they would have cut off Jaime's head, that would not have been eye for an eye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metopheles Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 A always wanted to say that: Still a better lovestory than Twilight :lol: How do you know? :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ovis alba Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 How do you know? :lol: I can't think of any couple of any 2 GoT characters that wouldn't be better. Even Cersei and a White Walker would probably work better. :D But Stannis and Dany? Pure gold. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Nice catch! Thanks for this link. I'm continuously amazed by how well Emilia understands Dany. Every single time I saw her comment on a big Dany moment, she seems to nail it (no pun intended). Stannis: Invader!!! Dany: Usurper!!!!!!!!!!!! *proceed to kill each other* Davos: My king! Jorah: KHALEESI!!!!111eleven Melisandre + Selmy: *facepalm* They kiss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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