US Politics: Tragedy of the Commons? What's that?

[Shryke]

I've seen a fair bit of Putin-worship for his naked horse-riding photo shoot, particularly in comparison to allegedly wimpy, Mom-jeans wearing Obama.

That's not about his physique though, it's about the tough man image he portrays.

[Max the Mostly Mediocre]

Right now, many are demanding Sterling be sanctioned, many more want him to be forced to sell the Clippers.

But shouldn’t Andrew Sullivan, Maggie Gallagher, Brian Brown, Bryan Fischer, Tony Perkins, AEI fellow Charles Murray, Legal Insurrection blogger William A. Jacobson, former GOP chair Ken Mehlman, Washington Post blogger Eugene Volokh, Slate’s Will Saletan, and PayPal co-founder Peter Thiel, among many others, voice support for Sterling?

Shouldn’t they be rushing to his defense?

http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/donald-sterlings-personal-beliefs-are-none-of-your-business-right/discrimination/2014/04/27/86400

[Crazydog7]

Before we all get spun up like good knee jerk liberals I will say that

A. this was a private conversation

B. Sterling is close to 80

C. Is still worth 2.2 billion dollars

We can have all the moments of righteous indignation that we want but please have some perspective a lynching is racist, voter suppression is racist that comment was at worst incredibly insensitive. What are they going to do force him to sell his NBA team now worth 675-700? Oh yeah he is just crying in his beer at the thought of his own racial insensitivity.

[grumdin]

Can we get flood control established on the politics thread? Five pages in less then a day it can be difficult to keep track of all the responses.

Ramsay---I would tell you that you need to go back and read the finer points of the Bundy case but considering we are on thread we are on those points have probably already been reheashed several times. The enimies were not "armed feds" and the rancer some poor oppressed salt of the earth farmer and this whole thing was not a case of the evil goverment overstepping its bounds. This was not a case of the goverment slapping Eminent domain on some property it needed and didn't want to pay for which certainly does happen. Bundy is a tax cheat. Its all very well and good to unilaterally declare that the Federal Goverment doesn't have a right to tax you because you don't recognize their authority but the federal goverment disagrees with you.

The Feds enacted a 'free speech zone". Exercising ones 1A rights outside this small area invited arrest, one of Bundy's sons was assaulted and arrested for taking pictures FFS! This is both unconstitutional and illegal, but as long as it's dudes with badges breaking the law no one gives a fuck. Btw Bundy and the Feds were engaged in a civil dispute over some unpaid fees, he has never been charged with a criminal offense or had an arrest warrant issued against him. For a civil beef they sent hundreds of heavily armed paramilitaries armed to the teeth. They were out to teach him a lesson and it ended up backfiring in their faces spectacularly, which is a good thing as far as I'm concerned.

[DanteGabriel]

Before we all get spun up like good knee jerk liberals I will say that

A. this was a private conversation

B. Sterling is close to 80

C. Is still worth 2.2 billion dollars

We can have all the moments of righteous indignation that we want but please have some perspective a lynching is racist, voter suppression is racist that comment was at worst incredibly insensitive. What are they going to do force him to sell his NBA team now worth 675-700? Oh yeah he is just crying in his beer at the thought of his own racial insensitivity.

The real problem is that he's been a racist landlord who discriminated against black and Latino tenants for decades. He's lost court cases on it.

Donald Sterling's racism is a settled matter. The fact that the NBA kept it quiet for so long is a big problem. The fact that the LA chapter of the NAACP ignored his legally established discriminatory policies as a landlord because he was shoveling money at them to soften his reputation as the biggest scumbag owner in sports (which is really saying a lot) is a problem.

The recorded conversation is a side show, and it's pathetic that in the kabuki theater that passes for American public life now, this is what gets people talking about what a scumbag he is, but Donald Sterling deserves to be shat upon every day from a great height.

[lokisnow]

Well, I suppose the main point of that article is that mobilization of infrequent voters is the key to Democratic victories in November, and that there are some indications that if they get the funding the Democrats can do better with that this year than they did in 2010.

I was a little miffed by a couple of comments in the article, though. The author throws off the cliche line that "people get more conservative" as they age with little data to back that up. A bit more frustratingly, Celinda Lake is quoted as saying that as the Roosevelt seniors have died off the "Reagan seniors" have replaced them. No, the "Silent Generation" voters now in their 70s had their Republican preference created by EISENHOWER, not Reagan. The group that has an oversupply of Republican leaning voters because they came of age during Reagan's first term are the tail end of the Baby Boomers, those born between about 1960 and 1965, who are the people now in their early 50s, not "seniors."

It is a great article, I was going to post it but Trisky beat me to it. I also noticed that she thought Reaganites were in their seventies, but there's something deliciously ironic that she forgot about the Silent generation. She also used one of my least favorite political phrases that are popular among democrats, "we've won five of the last six popular votes for president." That line is utterly fucking pathetic, completely useless and absurdly ego-stroking for the person uttering it. It'd be more accurate to say "we democrats have lost three extremely winnable presidential elections recently, mostly because we suck at our jobs and hate to win. When the most loathed and loathsome president since the civil war was shamed out of office, that given all the advantages that scandal conferred we hated to win so much we could only retain the presidency for a single term! That's how bad we suck at what we do!"

Is it really though? If there was a deplorable but physically attractive male politician and a female said his looks were his only redeeming trait would that be equally "sexist"?

I nominate John Edwards, as a bonus, he was also a veepstakes winner and is also pretty similar to Palin all around in the general profoundly reprehensible personality department. and yeah, it's sexist.

[DanteGabriel]

The Feds enacted a 'free speech zone". Exercising ones 1A rights outside this small area invited arrest, one of Bundy's sons was assaulted and arrested for taking pictures FFS! This is both unconstitutional and illegal, but as long as it's dudes with badges breaking the law no one gives a fuck. Btw Bundy and the Feds were engaged in a civil dispute over some unpaid fees, he has never been charged with a criminal offense or had an arrest warrant issued against him. For a civil beef they sent hundreds of heavily armed paramilitaries armed to the teeth. They were out to teach him a lesson and it ended up backfiring in their faces spectacularly, which is a good thing as far as I'm concerned.

Don't you get tired of repeating the same tired, exaggerated talking points for a racist tax cheat?

Oh, and the Bundy incident backfired in the feds' faces? As soon as Bundy started sharing his thoughts on race in America, it backfired on every right winger like you, Sean Hannity, and Rand Paul who thought this racist tax cheat was a worthy example of the horseshit cowboy values you fetishize.

[Max the Mostly Mediocre]

that comment was at worst incredibly insensitive.

At worst, huh? Which implies you don't think it was even that. What follows from there is left as an exercise for the reader.

But whatever, you missed the point of the piece, which was: either the people who defended Eich and won't do the same for Sterling are hypocrites or they don't think anti-gay bigotry is important. They're tools either way.

[grumdin]

I'll take it to mean you've accepted the arguments that TP and I put forward.

There are a thousand reasons to rip Sarah Palin to shreds, from her serial dishonesty to her petty vindictiveness to her smug ignorance to being a fucking quitter. No need to get into sexist arguments, which would just allow her to play the victim again.

Almost inevitably from the same troglodyte corners of the Republican Party that swooned over Bush the Lesser's codpiece during that "Mission Accomplished" landing. Members of the Right Wing Cult of Contrived Masculinity.

The attacks on her were often vicious and deeply personal. Denegrating someone's handicapped child, eww!

[grumdin]

Don't you get tired of repeating the same tired, exaggerated talking points for a racist tax cheat?

Oh, and the Bundy incident backfired in the feds' faces? As soon as Bundy started sharing his thoughts on race in America, it backfired on every right winger like you, Sean Hannity, and Rand Paul who thought this racist tax cheat was a worthy example of the horseshit cowboy values you fetishize.

Settled opinion in the right wing blogosphere is that Bundy was set up by a NYT liberal journalist. I disagree with that, I thnk Bundy is an old man racist, I just don't think that removes his right to a fair hearing.

[Ramsay Gimp]

I'll take it to mean you've accepted the arguments that TP and I put forward.

No, I barely even read past the first sentence. It's boring, and I'm not going to start worrying about political correctness on your account. I kindly suggest that you lighten up a little, and not go looking for monsters to slay in every little thing.

I nominate John Edwards, as a bonus, he was also a veepstakes winner and is also pretty similar to Palin all around in the general profoundly reprehensible personality department. and yeah, it's sexist.

Edwards is like a walking stereotype of a politician.

[Lightysnake88]

Grumdin: There's nothing, nothing in the laws bout not being able to arrest someone for flagrantly violating the law.

[Altherion]

How often are a male politician's looks cited? It's not considered relevant to their job performance, is it? But somehow, judging from your commentary and grumdin's, looks are relevant to evaluation of a female politician (or, at least, a failed politician, which is what Sarah Palin is). That's a sexist double standard and the implication that a woman's worth is derived from her appearance.

I'm pretty confident that appearance matters for politicians of both genders, though it matters less for men than for women. How many ugly young politicians have you seen? I've seen older ones, but at that point it's more about connections for either gender. There is sexism in American politics, but it's quite tame compared to most of the world. For example, observe the masters:

The statement issued by the North's Committee for the Peaceful Reunification of Korea expressed anger over President Barack Obama's visit to Seoul last week. It said Park was like a "despicable prostitute" with Obama as her pimp.

The North's officials and state-run media frequently use flourishes of inflammatory rhetoric. They have called past South Korean presidents dogs, but have shown a particular penchant for insulting Park with sexist slurs.

"She thus laid bare her despicable true colors as a wicked sycophant and traitor, a dirty comfort woman for the U.S. and despicable prostitute selling off the nation," said the statement, which was carried by the North's state-run media on Sunday and broadcast on nationwide television on Monday.

[grumdin]

I'm pretty confident that appearance matters for politicians of both genders, though it matters less for men than for women. How many ugly young politicians have you seen? I've seen older ones, but at that point it's more about connections for either gender. There is sexism in American politics, but it's quite tame compared to most of the world. For example, observe the masters:

Romney being compared to a Ken doll? Mr. plastic fantastic? They managed to both comment on his looks and insult him at the same time. Whereas SP has had most red blooded heterosexual men simply reacting the way God made us when viewing, what is, an exceptional specimen of femalehood.

[The Marquis de Leech]

When the most loathed and loathsome president since the civil war was shamed out of office, that given all the advantages that scandal conferred we hated to win so much we could only retain the presidency for a single term! That's how bad we suck at what we do!"

Not sure 1976 and 1980 is necessarily relevant to the modern era. Carter's coalition was the last gasp of the Solid South, and arguably all he (and Watergate) did was delay the oncoming tide of Republicanism.

The modern electoral map was born with Reagan/Mondale in 1984 (not kidding: give a uniform swing to Mondale till he wins, and you get a map that looks like that of the last decade).

[Wise Fool]

Romney being compared to a Ken doll? Mr. plastic fantastic? They managed to both comment on his looks and insult him at the same time. Whereas SP has had most red blooded heterosexual men simply reacting the way God made us when viewing, what is, an exceptional specimen of femalehood.

You don't get to speak for "most red blooded heterosexual men." Your reaction is not mine. You find her "gorgeous" and apparently can't go for too many posts without bleating out your fapping fanboyism for her. Others do not. Frankly your continued bullshit along these lines reveal your incredibly sexist worldview and typically immature objectification of women. You're disgusting and impossible to take seriously at this point.

[grumdin]

You don't get to speak for "most red blooded heterosexual men." Your reaction is not mine. You find her "gorgeous" and apparently can't go for too many posts without bleating out your fapping fanboyism for her. Others do not. Frankly your continued bullshit along these lines reveal your incredibly sexist worldview and typically immature objectification of women. You're disgusting and impossible to take seriously at this point.

If you knew nothing about her politcs (assuming you were ages with me) would you have the same feelings? SH is a gorgeous looking woman, v.sorry if you think a man commenting on a woman's looks is 'sexist' but I guess we all have our cross to bear. Either you are not a heterosexual man (in which case you have no idea wtf you are talking about) or you're flat misrepresenting.

[Wise Fool]

If you knew nothing about her politcs (assuming you were ages with me) would you have the same feelings? SH is a gorgeous looking woman, v.sorry if you think a man commenting on a woman's looks is 'sexist' but I guess we all have our cross to bear. Either you are not a heterosexual man (in which case you have no idea wtf you are talking about) or you're flat misrepresenting.

Yawn. You try vaguely to defend Sarah Palin's abhorrent speech and fail. Then you say people dislike her just because [you think] she's attractive. That fails. You repeat the same argument. That fails. Then you say that people don't think she's attractive because either they're gay, or they're lying and secretly objectify and lust for her the way you do. In summary, you have nothing worthwhile saying and nothing worth reading, and I'm done talking to you.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Grumdin,

Sarah Palin is right there with Huckabee for me. They both like to pander to small government conservaties but are really big government advocates in sheep's clothing. They simply have different justifications for their increases in government regulatory power.

Waterboarding/baptism, Lord have mercy, and she thought that kind of compairison was funny. Talk about a tin ear.

[Suttree]

Don't you get tired of repeating the same tired, exaggerated talking points for a racist tax cheat?

Oh, and the Bundy incident backfired in the feds' faces? As soon as Bundy started sharing his thoughts on race in America, it backfired on every right winger like you, Sean Hannity, and Rand Paul who thought this racist tax cheat was a worthy example of the horseshit cowboy values you fetishize.

The most awesome part is every time that troll rehashes things he changes the story around trying to make Bundy sound even more sympathetic. Imagine what this will look like a few pages down the line with Obama ordering drone strikes and Bundy's son assaulted after offering the Feds lemonade.