Ziggy Targdust Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 I think Joffrey beheading Ned was what took it to the point of no return. Before that there was possibility of it all fizzling out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hand to King Davos Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 No, that was what brought the North into the war for good. Before this it would still have been between Renly, Stannis, and the Lannisters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferocious Veldt Roarer Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 I think Joffrey beheading Ned was what took it to the point of no return. Before that there was possibility of it all fizzling out. First, it feels really weird defending Joffrey, in any context. Really weird.That said: before Ned's head rolled, something like half a dozen battles had already been fought. Two Lannister armies conquered the Riverlands and the Young Wolf began taking them back. And regardless of Ned's fate, the Baratheon brothers were soon going to join the fun anyway. So the time to prevent the war was long gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alia Atreides Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 TBH it can't be Lysa or Littlefinger because if Jon found the truth about Cersei and Jaime then war would have broke out Between IT and the west. If anything they delayed the inevitable.. Cersei and Jaime could have kept their mouths shut about Bran. He doesn't really remember what he saw anyways. My vote is for Joff It was indeed Littlefinger who started this whole mess; if he hadn't convinced Lysa to poison Jon Arryn, there would be no reason to come North to ask Ned to be hand. What does Jon (Snow) have to do with finding out the truth about Bran? and starting a war over it? Robb would of still been head of household at Winterfell. If Robert had still been alive and learned of Cersei and Jamie their heads would of been viewing KL. It was a set of Domino's and Littlefinger gave them a first push. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazfemur Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 To be perfectly honest, it was Jon Arryn that started the war, and here's why: You can say all you want that it was Petyr Baelish, which, in essence, it was. However, it was Jon Arryn investigating into Cersei/Jaime and the Barastards that led to the formation of the idea to have him killed. In that respect, him getting killed was the result of his meddling in internal affairs (heh). To go further back, you could say, well it was jaime and cersei sleeping together, which led to Jon Arryn's suspicions, ok. To go even further back, it was Tywin and Joanna having cersei and jaime. And to go even further back, whomever introduced Tywin to Joanna. Without getting to crazy though, the clear beginnings of this war, was Jon Arryn investigating the Baratheon kids. But Petyr Baelish took the first step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggy Targdust Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Did Jon bring it up to Stannis first? Weren't they both snooping? Do we know who started it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kienn Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Uhh.. you all crazy. It was Cersei making babies(especially Joffrey) with her bro that caused the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolves Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Uhh.. you all crazy. It was Cersei making babies with her bro that caused the war.Jaime shares equal blame that wasn't all Cersei it takes two to breed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kienn Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Jaime shares equal blame that wasn't all Cersei it takes two to breed. I didn't blame Cersei, I blamed the event - but it was actually mostly Cersei's fault yea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Light a wight tonight Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 The wannabe kings that defied the Iron Throne: Robb, Renly, Stannis and Balon. Without their pride, ambition, sense of entitlement or will of vengeance, would be perfectly possible to the Seven Kingdoms remaining in peace, saving the lifes of thousands of men and women. Prob with this is that the butt that warms the Iron Throne is not that of the the rightful King. If Joffrey had been Robert's true heir there would have been no reason/excuse for Renly and Stannis to claim the IT or for Ned to denounce Joff and get killed for that, so the North wouldn't have rebelled either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wmarshal Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 Cersei, even if Petyr did nothing, Stan and Jon would have hanged her and Jaime,old Tywin would rage and war and burn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazfemur Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 Cersei, even if Petyr did nothing, Stan and Jon would have hanged her and Jaime,old Tywin would rage and war and burn. Tywin. westerosi's first hipster sarcastic elitist. but you shouldnt worry about that, because youve probably never even heard, of his exploits, have you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Trell Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 Cersei and Jaime set the stage. Joffrey sealed the deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToTheWolves Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 Rhaegar,his father & lyanna a long time ago made all of this possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazfemur Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 Actually, whatever caused Aerys' madness so suddenly, i recall varys whispering paranoia into his ear.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy is not No One Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 you can make the argument that if robert had a legit son, he wouldnt be as messed up as Joff. So even if little finger was trying to set houses against each other, no wars would have broke out. No one other than Joff would behead Ned. No beheaded Ned means no war with the North. Which means no Iron Island rebellion. And no other war either. So yes, its Cersei and Jaime's fault. But more Cersie's fault because she was actively trying to make sure bob didnt have a legit heir their entire marriage. If you think about how much pain she caused Westeros, she deserves a fate worse than reek... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazfemur Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 LF all but led Arryn by the nose in discovering the incest. Stannis is ultimately responsible however, he should have gone to his brother and fuckin well told him that his wife was banging her own brother and none of his kids were his own, instead he ran off to Dragonstone to save his own ass. whoa hey whoa whoa. Hold on a second there. Stannis didn't cause any of this, Stannis just began his movement in book 2. surely, he had inkling of ideas, but att hat point, he had no proof. Thats the purpose of the homework they did. To build a case. You cant just go to your brother whose married to the most powerful family at the time and throw out accusations, you wouldnt achieve much. Stannis did what he could at the time with Jon Arryn, he didnt have a sufficient case, so he held off. In no way did he cause the war though, hell no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolves Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 Rhaegar,his father & lyanna a long time ago made all of this possible.See they were all dead and buried it is not their fault that a bunch of ill equipped people stole a throne and proceeded to think they could run it. No Targaryen is to blame for TWot5Ks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazfemur Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 He had as much evidence as Ned did. The difference is Ned did something about it, only it was too late. Stannis had a duty as a brother and a loyal subject to tell his King of treason, and a King's wife fucking her own brother and passing off the results as legitimate heirs IS treason. Stannis failed to do his duty and a war resulted. His excuse appears to be that Robert wouldn't have believed him, which is as week as it gets. you cant go on words alone, you need evidence. when you have people like tywin, cersei, people who LOVE power, and would do anything to defend it, you need yourself a compelling case first that leaves NO question. saying, "Your kids are all jaime's.." wouldnt cut it alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reek Havoc Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 Cersei for allowing Joffrey to grow up to be the horrid little monster boyking that he was. Joff committed the act that started the war... if he hadn't had Ned beheaded, and had him sent to the Wall as he was supposed to, it probably wouldn't have come to war. But it was Cersei that refused to allow the little beast to be punished, and put it in his head that he could do no wrong, and therefore get away with whatever he wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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