Stormland's Fury Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Humanity in its purest form caused the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Stokeworth Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Tyrion's abduction marked the beggining of hostilities. Anything before it was merely set up for future events. What if Ned got around telling Robert the truth in time? What if Lysa had chickened up and not poisoned Jon? Ned's beheading set the course for all out war, I think everything before it could have been settled without much bloodshed. Tywin admitted as much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazfemur Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Humanity in its purest form caused the war. Love it. No one else's arguments have never been so invalid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisdaw Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Tyrion's abduction marked the beggining of hostilities. Anything before it was merely set up for future events. What if Ned got around telling Robert the truth in time? What if Lysa had chickened up and not poisoned Jon? Ned's beheading set the course for all out war, I think everything before it could have been settled without much bloodshed. Tywin admitted as much.If Ned had gotten around to telling Robert the truth in time it'd be war between the Lannisters and Robert's allies. And if Ned doesn't get beheaded Stannis still knows he is king and with Robert gone Renly would still have his "look at me" moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Seed Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Here are a few candidates: Cersei & Jaime Lannister for being caught by Bran having sex at Winterfell, and pushing him off a window leading to him being a cripple and his mother going to KL to find out about it. Catelyn Stark for capturing Tyrion for Jon Arryn's murder and Bran's attempted murder, thus giving Tywin a reason to begin a war against the Starks. Petyr Baelish for telling Lysa to kill Jon Arryn and lying to Catelyn about the true owner of the Valyrian steel dagger used to assassinate Bran. Lysa Arryn for listening to LF and poisoning Jon Arryn and writing a letter to Catelyn, blaming the Lannisters for his death. Joffrey Baratheon for attempting to kill Bran and executing Ned Stark. Lancel Lannister for giving Robert strongwine, thus making him drunk, in result of the boar killing him. Eddard Stark for accepting the position as Hand Of The King and discovering the truth about Jaime & Cersei. IMO, it has to be LF. He started this whole thing by persuading Lysa to kill Jon Arryn and telling Catelyn that the VS dagger was Tyrion's instead of Robert's. It must have been unwilligly I suppose but still it was him who I believe started it all. I'd have to go with Cat Stark. Once she kidnapped the Imp she took away any ability Ned had to get his girls and himself to safety in Winterfell. As soon as she took the Imp Jaimie L came down on him for Tyrion's return and everything went to shit....Fast! The Starks (CAT) escalated and brought about quicker, a war that was coming at some point anyway. If Ned got out he would have been able to make his charges against the Lannisters from the comforts of the North where he has tons of support and protection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisdaw Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 There were more sides than just the North and Lannisters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Seed Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 There were more sides than just the North and Lannisters. No shit, but it started between The Starks and the Lannisters. Riverlands, Iron Born, Reach etc. came in after the Stark/Lannister dust up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisdaw Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 But besides the Riverlands they did not come into it because of the Starks and Lannisters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormland's Fury Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 No shit, but it started between The Starks and the Lannisters. Riverlands, Iron Born, Reach etc. came in after the Stark/Lannister dust up. The initial war was between the Lannisters and the Tullys though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Seed Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 But besides the Riverlands they did not come into it because of the Starks and Lannisters. No, but the poster asked what started or escalated the start of the war. Not how all the others came to join in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~DarkHorse~ Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Joffrey started the Stark/North involvement by beheading Ned. Thus also opening up the opportunity for the Greyjoys. Cersei and Jaime started the Stannis and Renly involvement by passing their inbred Bastards as Baratheon heirs. Littlefinger just watered the seeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisdaw Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Thread title reads who truly caused the war, not what tidbit lead to the first drawing of blood. The root cause of the WOT5K was Cersei fathering only Jaime's children and not Robert's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orm irian Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Littlefinger set things in motion way in advance, then f###wit Joff escalated things with his attempted assassination of Bran and beheading of Ned. They were the principal causes, IMHO. Tywin also bears responsibility for immediately starting armed hostilities, but esp for letting loose the Mountain to essentially wreak havoc and ruin in the Riverlands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Why would LF want JA dead if he's not around causing problems by looking for Robert's real sons? Let's say "oh, chaos" and Robert is actually father of Cersei's kids. Stannis doesn't fly to Dragonstone.Bran isn't hurt. No one is sent to try to kill him again.Tyrion doesn't get captured, hence, no pillaging the Riverlands.Ned try to find why Arryn died, finds nothing in no book at all. He offers Cersei nothing because she has done nothing at all.Cersei doesn't need to have Robert killed, or if she does (because she hates him), Joffrey has black hair and blue eyes. They question Lysa. Lysa confess (maybe), LF is beheaded. End. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion of Lorath Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Aerys, for refusing to marry Rhaegar to Cersei... and thus resulting in Rhaegar's unhappy marriage to Elia Martell and subsequent involvement with Lyanna Stark. That lead to Brandon storming into King's Landing demanding Lyanna's return, which resulted in Aerys arresting him for conspiring against Rhaegar, which resulted in Rickard coming to KL to negotiate Brandon's release, which resulted in both of their deaths, which resulted in the beginning of the war and the rise of the Baratheon monarchy. If Rhaegar had married Cersei, none of this would have ever happened, King Rhaegar would have the throne and Eddard would be alive and well as Lord of Barrowton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Seed Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Thread title reads who truly caused the war, not what tidbit lead to the first drawing of blood. The root cause of the WOT5K was Cersei fathering only Jaime's children and not Robert's. Yes, that was the thing that got the wheels starting to turn but Cats actions turned it into the war that it became. If Cat stays home in Winterfell and just relays the info to Ned, then Ned chooses a different direction. Cat's actions forced Ned to operate in a different way other than his slower more methodical and safer ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Aerys, for refusing to marry Rhaegar to Cersei... and thus resulting in Rhaegar's unhappy marriage to Elia Martell and subsequent involvement with Lyanna Stark. That lead to Brandon storming into King's Landing demanding Lyanna's return, which resulted in Aerys arresting him for conspiring against Rhaegar, which resulted in Rickard coming to KL to negotiate Brandon's release, which resulted in both of their deaths, which resulted in the beginning of the war and the rise of the Baratheon monarchy. If Rhaegar had married Cersei, none of this would have ever happened, King Rhaegar would have the throne and Eddard would be alive and well as Lord of Barrowton If Rhaegar had married Cersei, he would have run to any other lady, even the Ghost of HH, the night after the consummation. Then, he would check himself for depression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazfemur Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 I truly caused the war. I confess it. I'm sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisdaw Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Yes, that was the thing that got the wheels starting to turn but Cats actions turned it into the war that it became. If Cat stays home in Winterfell and just relays the info to Ned, then Ned chooses a different direction. Cat's actions forced Ned to operate in a different way other than his slower more methodical and safer ways.War will come no matter how Ned acts, provided it is somewhat realistic and in character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarocal Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 :agree: I think it is too simplistic to say one certain person started it all. That's like saying the black hand assassination of Arch Duke Ferdinand started WWI. Yes, it was a catalyst and probably the tipping point, but things were in motion long before. This war was going to happen before Littlefinger had Lysa poison Jon. That said - how about if Jaime and Cersei hadn't gotten their sex on, no incest kids would be around for Jon to be suspicious of? Ignore the incest, Renly was plotting to replace Cersei with Margery Tyrell before Stannis sent out letters proclaiming Cersei's children were all bastards. If snatching Tyrion whom Tywin loathed started hostilities can you imagine what Robert setting aside Cersei as queen to marry a Tyrell would have done? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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