Hazea's Bones

[The Prince of Newcastle]

When I read ADWD I assumed that Drogon did not kill Hazea and that it was all just a con to get Dany to cage her dragons.

I was 100% sure it was a lie.

Sure, they are a child's bones, but what proof is there that drogon did it? As far as I remember, absolutely none.

But on this forum... It seems almost canon that Drogon did indeed eat this child and somehow the sheep herder got the bones back.

So what happened? I dunno if I could read Dany ADWD arc a third time. Help!

[Mikkel]

It's a good question.

I'll make no secret of the fact that I think Dany is a menace (or a menace in the making, at best), so I'm naturally inclined to think the worst of her and by extension her dragons, but I think it's quite likely to be a lie. There's no clear evidence either way though, and what little there is does point to it being real: Why otherwise wait until the hall is empty before telling the story? Surely, if it was a propaganda move, the more witnesses the better right? Still, that's flimsy at best - but to my knowledge it's all there is.

[jet199]

Looking at it another way. At the beginning of ADWD the nobles of Meereen think Dany is a barbarian tyrant who has no honour. Why would they think Drogon killing a child would cause Dany to shut away her greatest asset?

[The Silver King]

Well, we know the Harpy is not above the slaughter of children. As to whether or not Drogon actually did it, well we just don't know. Chances are we'll never know.

Agreed. I can see the SOH pulling something like this but I can also see Drogon accidentally harming a child while hunting. (The way the show depicted him hunting last night I can totally see a situation like Hazea happening but as Leap said we'll probably never know for sure.)

[Danelle]

The first time I read it, I thought that the man was lying, but on a reread, I couldn't fail noticing that the Hazzea's father was very subtle.

In that chapter Dany is both weary and wary of the people who claim that her dragons attacked their animals.

"Men make fires. Men cook mutton. Burnt bones prove nothing. Brown Ben says there are red wolves in the hills outside the city, and jack-als and wild dogs. Must we pay good silver for every lamb that goes astray between Yunkai and the Skahazadhan?"

Still she is willing to pay the people money, as a recompense for the dead animals.

Some claims were false, she did not doubt, but more were genuine. Her dragons had grown too large to be content with rats and cats and dogs. The more they eat, the larger they will grow, Ser Barristan had warned her, and the larger they grow, the more they' ll eat. Drogon especially ranged far afield and could easily devour a sheep a day. "Pay them for the value of their animals," she told Reznak, "but henceforth claimants must present themselves at the Temple of the Graces and swear a holy oath before the gods of Ghis."

Her term that the ones who had lost cattle, due to the hunger of the dragons, ought to take an oath before the Gods, is actually a clever way to ensure that the people will not lie. Some will, but other will not.

Then Dany notices a man, who remains at the throne room.

One man lingered behind as the rest were filing out—a squat man with a windburnt face, shabbily dressed. His hair was a cap of coarse red-black wire cropped about his ears, and in one hand he held a sad cloth sack. He stood with his head down, gazing at the marble floor as if he had quite forgotten where he was. And what does this one want? Dany wondered.

He appears to be a Ghiscari and a commoner as well, likely a shepherd or a farmer.

The man gazes at Dany, almost with mute appeal

When he raised his head, his eyes were red and raw as open sores. Dany glimpsed Ser Barristan sliding closer, a white shadow at her side. The man approached in a stumbling shuffle, one step and then another, clutching his sack. Is he drunk, or ill? she wondered. There was dirt beneath his cracked yellow fingernails.

He can barely speak, and he is trying to explain to Dany what happened

His tongue flicked nervously over chapped, cracked lips. "I … I brought …"

"It were the black one," the man said, in a Ghiscari growl, "the winged shadow. He come down from the sky and … and …"

He cannot even finish the sentence, and he never telles exactly what happenned.

Reznak mistreats him and orders him to leave with the others, but Dany and Barristan know what the man was trying to say.

"Are you deaf, fool?" Reznak mo Reznak demanded of the man. "Did you not hear my pronouncement? See my factors on the morrow, and you shall be paid for your sheep." "Reznak," Ser Barristan said quietly, "hold your tongue and open your eyes. Those are no sheep bones."

No, Dany thought, those are the bones of a child.

It could be that Reznak was plotting against Dany and everything was set up. He arranged for the man to be present, and he had planned to treat him with contempt and pretend to believe that those were the bones of an animal, thus forcing Dany and Barristan into drawing their own conclusions and admitting that the bones belong to a child.

Then again, I am inclined to believe that the man was not paid by Dany's enemies, and that in fact he was a random subject whose child was at the wrong place the wrong time.

He doesn't even try to get noticed, he doesn't yell, he doesn't scream.

If Dany hadn't noticed him, he may had return home, without anyone knowing what happened to Hazzea.

If the Ghiscari were trying to use Drogon's uncontrollable hunger against Dany, I think that they would have been more vocal in their reaction.

Coming up with an elaborate plan in order to make Dany feel guilty for her dragons and basing the plan on the possibility of Dany noticing

a man, who can barely talk coherently, doesn't seem likely to me.

The way I see it, the man was telling the truth.

[TheReal_Rebel]

Looking at it another way. At the beginning of ADWD the nobles of Meereen think Dany is a barbarian tyrant who has no honour. Why would they think Drogon killing a child would cause Dany to shut away her greatest asset?

Kudos!

[LordStoneheart]

It makes more story/emotional sense for it to be real. If somehow its reveal that it was a set up, it would probably take a weight off Dany's shoulders. Too easy. Just as some claim a Aerys, father of Tyrion would reduce the impact of Tyrion as a Kinslayer, I think Drogon not killing a child would take away from Dany's struggle as a mother to dragons. it's a struggle I like, no matter how sad and horrendous it is. We as fans get to try and rationalize our love for her and accept that this is the character we're supporting, and it's "ammo" for Danyhaters to hold over us. It just works better story-wise for Hazzea to have been killed by Drogon.

I'd certainly believe it was a set-up though. If that is revealed as the truth I wouldn't consider it bad storytelling per se.

[Leonardo]

Drogon definitely burned her up if he didn't eat her. They're DRAGONS, wild magical animals without any real remorse and the only empathy they have is for/through their riders.

The real problem is Danny crew should have expected this and prepared for it. There are lots of good reasons why the dragonmont and dragon pit were around, and this is one of them. I mean just look at Robb and Grey wind: Grey wind killed and ate too many men to ever fear them again and would lash out at his banner men. I imagine the issue is even more extrapolated with dragons.

[The Silver King]

Looking at it another way. At the beginning of ADWD the nobles of Meereen think Dany is a barbarian tyrant who has no honour. Why would they think Drogon killing a child would cause Dany to shut away her greatest asset?

They also know she still has feelings. The crucifixion of those slave children was clearly meant to shake and dissuade her. As much as they like to call her Monster they know she holds people (at least slaves and children) close to her heart.

[complexphoenix]

Drogon definitely burned her up if he didn't eat her. They're DRAGONS, wild magical animals without any real remorse and the only empathy they have is for/through their riders.

The real problem is Danny crew should have expected this and prepared for it. There are lots of good reasons why the dragonmont and dragon pit were around, and this is one of them. I mean just look at Robb and Grey wind: Grey wind killed and ate too many men to ever fear them again and would lash out at his banner men. I imagine the issue is even more extrapolated with dragons.

Direwolves are not dragons and dragons are not direwolves. Grey Wind lashed out at the Spicers and the Freys because he sensed (smelled?) they were treacherous. The dragons have no nose for treachery, as evidenced by their fondness for Brown Ben Plumm. Grey Wind's personality was largely a reflection of Robb's, because a warg and his wolf are part of each other; the nature of Dany's bond with Drogon is similar in some ways, but also different. We will have to wait for TWOW to get more insight on it.

[joluoto2]

Drogon is a dragon, and dragons are dangerous animals. Of course it was Drogon, the girl probably accidentally did something that made Drogon angry or irritated.

[Winter's Knight]

Direwolves are not dragons and dragons are not direwolves. Grey Wind lashed out at the Spicers and the Freys because he sensed (smelled?) they were treacherous. The dragons have no nose for treachery, as evidenced by their fondness for Brown Ben Plumm. Grey Wind's personality was largely a reflection of Robb's, because a warg and his wolf are part of each other; the nature of Dany's bond with Drogon is similar in some ways, but also different. We will have to wait for TWOW to get more insight on it.

Eh Summer and Shaggydog nearly killed Meera and Jojen.

[LordStoneheart]

And just how do we know we can trust Meera and Jojen? ;)

[complexphoenix]

The Ghiscari certainly had motive, but beyond that there's no evidence that it was faked, and if it were a plot to smear Dany we would have heard the tale a lot more often. So I always thought it was real.

[BaneoftheCitadel]

If the bones belonged to Hazea and one of the noble houses was responsible, would we feel any empathy or compassion for this child? No, like as not. Thousands have died at the hands of their Masters or those they delegate to do their oppression. The bones of this child are a warning to Dany of what is to come. No war lacks for innocent victims as both Ser Barristan Selmy and Jorah Mormont point out to Her Grace. Dany is attempting to be an example to follow and yet her "children", the very symbols of her legitimacy, threaten to overpower all she has worked for in Mereen.

I would argue that Dany thrives on control. She is most secure, even in the face of terrible danger when she is in control. She has no control over Drogon as the last chapters of ADWD proves. She was not in Mereen when the brave but foolish Prince of Dorne tried to take her dragons and so she could not stop them from doing what dragons were born to do. She had no control over the decision to marry her to Khal Drogo but she managed to make the best of a bad situation. When she returns to Mereen, it will be no different. I predict that she will return to Westeros but only at great cost and with desperate need.

PS. Cersei, your problems are only just beginning....

[The Prince of Newcastle]

Hmmm... I dunno...

I seem to be in a minority in thinking it was a set up, which is strange.

I was genuinely taken aback when I read people took it at face value.

Maybe I'm looking too deeply.

[danm_999]

I doubt it's a setup.

The Meereenese insurgents already have an extremely low opinion of Daenerys. They already consider her a deal breaker, a liar and a savage. Why would they think the killing of a child would be the straw that broke the camel's back for such a person? She's set Drogon on the Wise Masters of Astapor, and she's set him on Yunkish diplomats under peace banners. Why would they ever expect that some nobody's dead kid is different? Why would they think that caused her to reel the dragons in?

Additionally, the man waits until the court has completely cleared of supplicants. If he wanted to perjure himself about a fake dragon killing and go for maximum PR effect, he wouldn't wait like this. He'd do it in front of the full court.

[Blow My Horn]

Hmmm... I dunno...

I seem to be in a minority in thinking it was a set up, which is strange.

I was genuinely taken aback when I read people took it at face value.

Maybe I'm looking too deeply.

It's odd how easily folks take this yet want to create conspiracies about everything else.

[complexphoenix]

Hmmm... I dunno...

I seem to be in a minority in thinking it was a set up, which is strange.

I was genuinely taken aback when I read people took it at face value.

Maybe I'm looking too deeply.

When there's actual evidence, however thin, that something shouldn't be taken at face value, people on this forum are quick to spin theories. The issue here is that there's just no evidence of a setup, beyond the observation that Dany is in an environment where there are people with motive to create such setups, and even when there are conspirators around, not everything is a conspiracy. The father's behavior is just not consistent with the idea that he was being anything other than honest. If it was a setup he would have been a lot less low-key, and there would have been others around to witness it and spread the tale. The fact that some of Dany's people investigate whether it's a setup and conclude that there's no reason to think so ought to settle it.

[RumHam]

I think it's worth considering what we see in The Princess and The Queen. Several dragons live on dragonstone. One is called Sheapstealer by the smallfolk, another The Cannibal. None of them are called "Childeater."