Wow, I never noticed that v.5

[Kyoshi]

Each of the time Dance of the Dragons song is mentioned, Sansa is present. And the three times the song is sung, they are present in different books.

(1) A Game of Thrones

"Later, while Sansa was off listening to a troupe of singers perform the complex round of interwoven ballads called the “Dance of the Dragons,”"

(2) A Storm of Swords (Joffrey's Wedding)

"Collio began with his version of “The Dance of the Dragons,” which was more properly a song for two singers, male and female."

(3) AFFC (Eyrie)

"He sang of the Dance of the Dragons, of fair Jonquil and her fool, of Jenny of Oldstones and the Prince of Dragonflies. He sang of betrayals, and murders most foul, of hanged men and bloody vengeance. He sang of grief and sadness. No matter where she went in the castle, Sansa could not escape the music. It floated up the winding tower steps, found her naked in her bath, supped with her at dusk, and stole into her bedchamber even when she latched the shutters tight. It came in on the cold thin air, and like the air, it chilled her."

It may mean nothing but it is interesting that Sansa is present during this particular song. She may have a role in the second dance of the dragons, especially if she is betrothed (not married) to Aegon.

Thanks! Never noticed that!

[Elkrider]

The Arbor is an island. I don't know how I managed to not look at the corner of the map before, but this surprised me. Guess it explains why they have such a large fleet.

[Ygritte]

My reread just got to the point where Arya and Sandor cross paths again in the Brotherhood Without Banners hideout. When he recognizes her, he calls her "the little sister." Not "Sansa's little sister" or "her little sister" but "the little sister." If Valyrian is gender neutral, it might be a clue to her as the valonqar, rather than either of Cersei's literal brothers.

[RumHam]

If Valyrian is gender neutral

It's not. It's a common misconception around here.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

It's not. It's a common misconception around here.

Yep. Just the Valyrian word for dragon, because dragons themselves are gender-neutral.

[Ygritte]

Yep. Just the Valyrian word for dragon, because dragons themselves are gender-neutral.

Ah OK, never mind then. :)

[Ziriath]

- Hother ''Whoresbane'' Umber was once sent to Oldtown to study for a maester's chain. But in one of letters from Winterfell there is only his sign, not a proper signature.

How it comes a guy who was once supposed to be a future maester, seems to be illiterate?

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

- Hother ''Whoresbane'' Umber was once sent to Oldtown to study for a maester's chain. But in one of letters from Winterfell there is only his sign, not a proper signature.

How it comes a guy who was once supposed to be a future maester, seems to be illiterate?

Some readers have taken that to mean that it is possible that Hothers signature on the letter was forged. ;)

[jet199]

Some readers have taken that to mean that it is possible that Hothers signature on the letter was forged. ;)

My crackpot is that there is a fake Umber in Winterfell because they always planned to betray Roose.

[HexMachina]

My crackpot is that there is a fake Umber in Winterfell because they always planned to betray Roose.

I prefer the idea that the 'greybeards' have gone to Winterfell knowing they are unlikely to leave, in an act to preserve the younger generation, the "green boys".

Supported by the Theon sample. Mors had the green boys with him

Somewhat similsr to the story of old men riding.out to die during winter you know. Thats my personal.favourite anyway

[coil]

nevermind

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

My crackpot is that there is a fake Umber in Winterfell because they always planned to betray Roose.

Well, Roose would know the Umbers, at least from sight, so that might not be the case.

But I've once seen it suggested that the Umbers might not come across so literate, and that the forging of the signature in the matter that it happened (a crude mark, IIRC) was the big mistake, since they tried to do this for the one Umber who would undoubtly be literate, and would thus know how to write properly.

However, that their loyalty is questionable, and that there is a plan involving Umbers to betray Roose and Ramsay, I am keeping that possibility in mind myself as well ;)

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

I prefer the idea that the 'greybeards' have gone to Winterfell knowing they are unlikely to leave, in an act to preserve the younger generation, the "green boys".

Supported by the Theon sample. Mors had the green boys with him

Somewhat similsr to the story of old men riding.out to die during winter you know. Thats my personal.favourite anyway

Ah, that's a sad though... But a beautiful one as well.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Iirc someone hypotised that apparently the one who signed the letter wasn't Hother but his brother... still, a nice pick.

When discussing the identity of (f)Aegon in other threads the argument of his age showed up, so I read the appendix of the various books and noticed something interesting: generally speaking, GRRM doesn't like to give us the specific age of the characters unless they are fifteen or younger.

Since the very first book we have the specific ages of all the Stark and Lannister kids, as well as the age of characters who do not actually have that big of an impact on the story (such as Davos' younger sons, Steffon and Stannis, whose age appears in ACoK's appendix).

It looks like regardless of the importance, if a character is 15 or below you'll get his age soon or later.

GRRM even takes the time to write about all the Freys below sixteen (and juding from the size of the family it looks obvious that he took at least a little of time to look at them all) or even a vaguely mentioned Pate, whipped instead of Tommen during his education.

The exceptions to the rule that I noticed are Maester Aemon, given his respectable record of 102 and possibly being the oldest living being in Westeros (eventual considerations about Old Nan and Bloodraven seem slightly off topic) and the Sand Snakes (don't know why)... but most importantly Rhaenys and Aegon Targaryen (however we know that Aegon was born just few months before Robert's rebellion) and our good old Young Griff, age eighteen.

"Old" indeed!

Given that Tommen stays 8 through the series and Jon and Dany start with 15 and 13, basically we can determine that the "new" Aegon is fake simply by doing math, regardless of the other textual hints!

I also never noticed that Jojen and Joffrey are coevals... it must be because of their attitude >_>

Ehm... I'm not following your math exactly. What precisely are you referring to? In the appendix, young Griff (Aegon), is stated to be 18 years old. That's in the book he's introduced in, which takes place completely in 300AC. This would place his birth in 282AC, and indeed, that's when the real Aegon was born, having been 14 months old at his death at the end of the Rebellion, roughly 9 months into 283AC, placing his birth perfectly in 282AC.

So doing math cannot cannot be used to proof that Aegon is fake ;) since it is more pointing into the direction of rAegon.

Also, Tommen starts at 7 in Game, and has turned 9 by Dance. ;) So he did not remain 8.

[coil]

Ehm... I'm not following your math exactly. What precisely are you referring to? In the appendix, young Griff (Aegon), is stated to be 18 years old. That's in the book he's introduced in, which takes place completely in 300AC. This would place his birth in 282AC, and indeed, that's when the real Aegon was born, having been 14 months old at his death at the end of the Rebellion, roughly 9 months into 283AC, placing his birth perfectly in 282AC.

So doing math cannot cannot be used to proof that Aegon is fake ;) since it is more pointing into the direction of rAegon.

Also, Tommen starts at 7 in Game, and has turned 9 by Dance. ;) So he did not remain 8.

You are right, mistake of mine.

As curiosity, the horrendous italian version of Asoiaf states Tommen to be 8yo through all the series.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

So doing math cannot cannot be used to proof that Aegon is fake ;) since it is more pointing into the direction of rAegon.

He should change his name. Sounds waaaaaaay cooler: Rhaegon.

[Wolf's Pack]

All this time, Ive been waiting for ice spiders. We need to be looking out for ice sheep!

Imagine an Other riding a sheep :D

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

You are right, mistake of mine.

As curiosity, the horrendous italian version of Asoiaf states Tommen to be 8yo through all the series.

He certainly changes age in english... It would kind of be strange, of course, if Tommen was 8 years old for 2,5 years.. ;)

[the Scorpion Knight]

- Hother ''Whoresbane'' Umber was once sent to Oldtown to study for a maester's chain. But in one of letters from Winterfell there is only his sign, not a proper signature.

How it comes a guy who was once supposed to be a future maester, seems to be illiterate?

or whoresbane pretes to be illiterate

[bent branch]

I think it's just me, but I have never noticed that Tyrion was born with black hair...

(at least according to Oberyn in ASoS)

which is quite strange since children usually born with lighter hair which may darken as they age, but not the other way around...

I just have to respond here. My eldest was born with a head of short black hair. When she was about a month old it all fell out over the course of a couple of days. When her hair grew back in, she was a blonde. I don't think this says anything about the story though.