Wow, I never noticed that v.5

[ladyinblack]

In Jon Snow's 1st Chapter, (AGOT Chapter 5) - he is speaking with Tyrion outside the Feast at Winterfell.

Tyrion is talking to Jon about how he was lucky to be born into a rich family

"Had I been born a peasant, they might have left me out to die, or sold me to some slaver's grotesquerie."

Good one!

[ladyinblack]

They must have been communicating before that to guarantee the Freys' passage through the hell known as the Riverlands.

Yes

Boltons & Freys were going to turn as soon as Winterfell was taken

[ladyinblack]

There's more to it even.

• Mance playing music (like Rhaegar)
• when Jon meets Mance, the song Mance plays is the Dornishman's wife IIRC, (evidence point toward Jon being born in Dorne; and it's a song about adultery; that when added to the tale of Bael the Bard kind of tells the whole sorry story of R+L ;) both are mentioned in the same Jon chapter.)
• the black cloak + red silk that Mance wears (Targ colors);
• Dalla dying of childbirth;
• her son being born while a battle is going on (an approximate fit.),
• Dalla is being watched over by a sworn brother (though Jon wears a black cloak, not white);
• the battle in itself, where Mance (the Rhaegar parallel) looses to Stannis (a Baratheon brother).
• Mance's son being given a Targaryen name (though he is northern >> Jon is (also) a northern name, for a Targ);
• being named after a sort of fatherly figure of his "foster father" (Sam/Aemon; Ned/Jon Arryn)...

I wonder if Val is sort of meant to be an Ashara parallel...

ETA: forgot also the Jon/Stannis; Ned/Robert parallel (conflict about the murder of children). Jon seems rather disenchanted by Stannis when he learns that Mel wishes to burn the babe and believes that Stannis means to let her.[/quot

e]

The lines up things nicely, Bravo!

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Just noticed this:

Joffrey

[Matoro]

Just noticed this:

Joffrey

Yeah, that's disturbing. JofFrey BaraTheon, four things that led House Stark to its ruin.

[Unlady B]

The Dothraki’s proof of valor is their braided topknots. Whenever they lose a battle they must cut their braids as a sign of defeat. They mark victories by putting tiny bells in their braids, often taking bells from the Dothraki they have slain. Thus, a warrior's topknot is a symbol of his prowess.

Dany's had 2 major defeats: losing Khal Drogo and his Khalassar, and losing any control of Meereen and the people surrounding her.

In both moments, she lost her hair.

In the pyre, all her hair was burnt out, but she came out with 3 dragons, and from the fighting pit she had half her hair on fire, but apparently now she is bonding with Drogon.

[ARYa_Nym]

But knights are ransomed all of the time, its the whole purpose of capturing them rather than killing them.

I'll look for the quote now and edit it in, as my desktop app is updating atm

This one isn't about children, but the pack are ravaging the livelihood of the smallfolk:

And the baby quote:

Yes, she killed a shepherd.

Her nights were lit by distant stars and the shimmer of moonlight on show, but every dawn she woke to darkness. She opened her eyes and stared up blind at that black that shrouded her, her dream already fading. So beautiful. She licked her lips remember. The bleeding of the sheep, the terror in the shepherd’s eyes, the sound the dogs had made as she killed them one by one, the snarling of her pack. Game had become scarcer since the snows began to fall, but last night they feasted. Lamb and dog and mutton and the flesh of man. Some of her little grey cousins were afraid of men, even dead men, but not her. Meat were meat, and men were prey. She was the night wolf. But only when she dreamed.

She makes no distinction of good or bad. Humans are prey to her. I've said that in the winter when there are less animals to eat she will prey on people even more.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Dany's had 2 major defeats: losing Khal Drogo and his Khalassar, and losing any control of Meereen and the people surrounding her.

In both moments, she lost her hair.

In the pyre, all her hair was burnt out, but she came out with 3 dragons, and from the fighting pit she had half her hair on fire, but apparently now she is bonding with Drogon.

Those do not qualify as defeats in the sense you are using them. Neither was a formal battle, which is what the braids and bells are for.

Also Meereen is not over yet so that one wouldn't count anyway.

[Unlady B]

Those do not qualify as defeats in the sense you are using them. Neither was a formal battle, which is what the braids and bells are for.

Also Meereen is not over yet so that one wouldn't count anyway.

Yeah, I know, but I was meaning it as in a figurative sense. I found it interesting that she lost her hair after those important moments, considering the meaning the hair has in the dothraki culture. Like after a hard time, a fresh start.

ETA: and she might have not been defeated as in battle, but they weren't victory times either. She's pretty down.

Plus, she wears bells in her hair since Vaes Tolorro, when she hasn't won any battle yet.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Yeah, I know, but I was meaning it as in a figurative sense. I found it interesting that she lost her hair after those important moments, considering the meaning the hair has in the dothraki culture. Like after a hard time, a fresh start.

ETA: and she might have not been defeated as in battle, but they weren't victory times either. She's pretty down.

Plus, she wears bells in her hair since Vaes Tolorro, when she hasn't won any battle yet.

Ah, I understand now. Sorry for the mix-up there.

She needs to remember that dragons wear no bells. :D

[Unlady B]

Ah, I understand now. Sorry for the mix-up there.

She needs to remember that dragons wear no bells. :D

It's fine, it was my fault that the first post wasn't very clear. (and by the way, it was also fine if you were disagreeing with my point of view)

When I was looking for the bells' reference in CoK, the first search results that came up were Patchface's bells... eery.

[ManBearPig]

Apologies if it has been mentioned before, but on a re-read I only just noticed that the correct name was Robett Glover.

Before I had always read it as Robert.

[RJSABR]

honestly I really didn't notice much of anything on my first read. I read them for the story so I missed out on so much. It was only after internet searching that I even came upon R+L=J and it blew my mind, so I reread them trying to pick as much up as a I could.

The only thing I remember actually realizing right away was that the black cat was what's her names cat.

[AlliYoyo]

Yes

Boltons & Freys were going to turn as soon as Winterfell was taken

I was skimming through Arya's last chapter in ACoK, and there's a moment when Elmar Frey was crying because he wouldn't get to marry his princess. Arya didn't put it together (maybe she didn't know at that point that Robb was now KitN, making her a princess... I can't remember), but I immediately knew on rereading that that the "princess" was Arya. So at that point, Arya's Frey marriage, the one Catelyn promised along with Robb's match for access to the bridge was called off.

Now what I can't remember is, was that before or after Robb's marriage to Jeyne Westerling? If after, then Elmar's broken betrothal was in response to that. But if it was before, then that could be a clue that Robb breaking his betrothal was just a pretext for the Red Wedding, and the plans for a Stark betrayal were in place before that.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

I was skimming through Arya's last chapter in ACoK, and there's a moment when Elmar Frey was crying because he wouldn't get to marry his princess. Arya didn't put it together (maybe she didn't know at that point that Robb was now KitN, making her a princess... I can't remember), but I immediately knew on rereading that that the "princess" was Arya. So at that point, Arya's Frey marriage, the one Catelyn promised along with Robb's match for access to the bridge was called off.

Now what I can't remember is, was that before or after Robb's marriage to Jeyne Westerling? If after, then Elmar's broken betrothal was in response to that. But if it was before, then that could be a clue that Robb breaking his betrothal was just a pretext for the Red Wedding, and the plans for a Stark betrayal were in place before that.

I believe this was after Robb married Jeyne. There might have been those who were entertaining the idea before Robb's wedding to Jeyne but there is no way that such a big secret would be told to someone like Elmar, a young child who tells the story to whoever he sees.

Tywin and Sybell were already plotting together before the marriage (in fact, it seems as if the marriage was because of their plotting, since Sybell seems to have tried to get Jeyne and Robb to sleep together, after which Robb's honour would do the rest).

[Mychel_Redfort]

I believe too it was after Robb's marriage. Catelyn learns Robb is marching toward the Crag in Chapter 45, Catelyn VI. Then Elmar tells Arya the Frey have been dishonored in Chapter 64, Arya X.

[Lost Melnibonean]

It was after.

[reekdasneak]

When jon pretends to be a ghost in the cripts arya is only one who sees him for who he was.

Foreshadowing jon being in ghost and arya seeing him in there? Dont know just made me think.

[SerArthurHeath]

Ah, but there has to be something for Bloodraven to see, and there has to be a reason Bloodraven is looking for a hedgeknight, who has introduced himself as Duncan ever since his knighting (except for one time in Ashford). :)

Bloodraven will probably know where Egg, as a prince, is and will want to know all about the type of man who is essentially raising and guarding Egg.

[SerArthurHeath]

Yet...

Didn't he kill Quentyn? That's kind of gonna piss of Doran. Eventually Doran will get sick of watching all his family die