Guard of the Rainking Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 i would love for you to quote the part when I called him a villain. Here's the problem with you Stans, you take the position if anybody disagrees with your characterization that Stannis isn't perfect as automatically assuming that I think he's flat, one-dimensional and evil. My perspective of Stannis as a character is that he's more interested in his claim to the IT than saving the realm. He uses going north strategically to win Northern lords to his cause due to the power vacuum in the north. He is ultimately becoming more pragmatic and a better leader. I don't think he's the hero YOU PEOPLE make him out to be but I don't think he's a villain either. But yeah if its easier for you to categorize that as me thinking he is a villain than by all means go ahead. I don't wanna pop your hero worship bubble. Not necessarily answering to your question, but what's with this talk Stannis' fans painting a picture of him that doesn't exist in the books? Sure some fans like to create memes and jokes about his badassery, but as I said those are just memes and jokes. Nearly all of things we like about him are directly from the books like his accomplishments and his quotes. It's naive to think that the fans love Stannis not because of how his in the books, but because they imagine a how he is in the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stannisismyking Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 I'm personally fascinated by the fact that what we see of Stannis in the books is only a snapshot of what's going on with him. Sometimes I want a POV from him, then other times I think a Stannis POV would break my brain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Onion Sleight Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 While I love Stannis' later ADWD storyline, the Jon and Mel stuff makes me gag and of course the show will sex it up and I'm to need so. many. buckets. Then again I'm not really sure why the Jon and Stannis stuff is so popular. Sure there's lots of snark from Stannis but he could be snarking at anyone really. I guess my main problem is Jon is fine as a character, but wouldn't even make my top 40 in the series! What I'd found important about Mel/Jon on the show (especially for Unsullied) is, that it shows Mel's true intentions, that her loyalty belongs only to her faith and her god; it still belongs also to Stannis, because she's convinced he's AAR; but recognozing slowly that the flames show her only Snow and she's highly interested in Jon, aso. is like the first serious crack in the Stannis/Mel "symbiosis". There are plenty of only show watchers who think Mel exploits Stannis, she wants him on the IT or even SHE wants to sit the IT / reign (and exploits him to get this); the Jon/Mel relationship changes also the view on the Mel/Stannis relationship (if someone's view was wrong in the past) and makes Mel's intentions, goal, behaviour clearer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thelastactionhero Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Not necessarily answering to your question, but what's with this talk Stannis' fans painting a picture of him that doesn't exist in the books? Sure some fans like to create memes and jokes about his badassery, but as I said those are just memes and jokes. Nearly all of things we like about him are directly from the books like his accomplishments and his quotes. It's naive to think that the fans love Stannis not because of how his in the books, but because they imagine a how he is in the books. I mostly agree with you, but now and again some people on this board do seem to turn a blind eye to some of his more questionable choices. The idea of the "Mannis" is mostly just good fun for us, but I can see how the Stanstans can rub people the wrong way with their idealized image of the character. I do think that the qualities people admire him for can be found in the books, it's just questionable whether or not his less savory traits are examined in equal measure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stannisismyking Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 I mostly agree with you, but now and again some people on this board do seem to turn a blind eye to some of his more questionable choices. The idea of the "Mannis" is mostly just good fun for us, but I can see how the Stanstans can rub people the wrong way with their idealized image of the character. I do think that the qualities people admire him for can be found in the books, it's just questionable whether or not his less savory traits are examined in equal measure. I'm terrible StanStan because his less savoury traits are catnip to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stannisismyking Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 What I'd found important about Mel/Jon on the show (especially for Unsullied) is, that it shows Mel's true intentions, that her loyalty belongs only to her faith and her god; it still belongs also to Stannis, because she's convinced he's AAR; but recognozing slowly that the flames show her only Snow and she's highly interested in Jon, aso. is like the first serious crack in the Stannis/Mel "symbiosis". There are plenty of only show watchers who think Mel exploits Stannis, she wants him on the IT or even SHE wants to sit the IT / reign (and exploits him to get this); the Jon/Mel relationship changes also the view on the Mel/Stannis relationship (if someone's view was wrong in the past) and makes Mel's intentions, goal, behaviour clearer. Oh I know her POV opens up a whole new insight into her, it's my second favourite chapter in the entire series after the prologue of ACOK (what a shocker that these two chapters would be my faves when Stannis and Mel are my absolute faves). The show has brought forward a few things from the POV chapter and GRRM even added one of those things himself in the episode he wrote in 3.07 (the reference to her past as a slave). I'm probably guilty of viewing Mel on the show through the filter of what I know of her in the POV and nodding approvingly when she's on screen because I know that even if she's doing shitty things, she's doing them for the greater good, or at least what SHE believes to be the greater good. And then I find it harder to imagine why show only people are so harsh on her. It gets messy! I was only ranting on my Tumblr last night about this very subject ;) I can't help getting over excited about her because she gets so little love in this fandom (ESPECIALLY from Stannis fans) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guard of the Rainking Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 I mostly agree with you, but now and again some people on this board do seem to turn a blind eye to some of his more questionable choices. The idea of the "Mannis" is mostly just good fun for us, but I can see how the Stanstans can rub people the wrong way with their idealized image of the character. I do think that the qualities people admire him for can be found in the books, it's just questionable whether or not his less savory traits are examined in equal measure. I agree, but I think that many fans embrace both the positive and the negative side of him. Also it's a fandom, so it's composed of people who like Stannis, so can you blame them for discussing about the things they like about him? Sure there are some "Stannis can do no wrong" fans but I like to believe that those are the minority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sati Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Oh I know her POV opens up a whole new insight into her, it's my second favourite chapter in the entire series after the prologue of ACOK (what a shocker that these two chapters would be my faves when Stannis and Mel are my absolute faves). The show has brought forward a few things from the POV chapter and GRRM even added one of those things himself in the episode he wrote in 3.07 (the reference to her past as a slave). I'm probably guilty of viewing Mel on the show through the filter of what I know of her in the POV and nodding approvingly when she's on screen because I know that even if she's doing shitty things, she's doing them for the greater good, or at least what SHE believes to be the greater good. And then I find it harder to imagine why show only people are so harsh on her. It gets messy! I was only ranting on my Tumblr last night about this very subject ;) I can't help getting over excited about her because she gets so little love in this fandom (ESPECIALLY from Stannis fans) I like Mel but I find her and Stannis at their best when they are in separate scenes- the scenes with her and BwB were fantastic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konradsmith Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 I really like Mel but that just might be because of Carice. :drool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stannisismyking Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 The BwB stuff was great; she just wasn't taking any shit from Thoros. But she was also humbled for a moment seeing what Thoros is capable of even though he's a drunken mess and she seems to be the "school swot" when it comes to her religion. I do appreciate all of her scenes with Stannis very much though. :smug: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stannisismyking Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 I really like Mel but that just might be because of Carice. :drool: JFC I drool over Carice, she's an absolute goddess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sati Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 The BwB stuff was great; she just wasn't taking any shit from Thoros. But she was also humbled for a moment seeing what Thoros is capable of even though he's a drunken mess and she seems to be the "school swot" when it comes to her religion. I do appreciate all of her scenes with Stannis very much though. :smug: I loved the way she said 'what happened?' to Thoros in High Valyrian after she pointed out he was on a mission and failed. Awesome sass :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Onion Sleight Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Oh I know her POV opens up a whole new insight into her, it's my second favourite chapter in the entire series after the prologue of ACOK (what a shocker that these two chapters would be my faves when Stannis and Mel are my absolute faves). The show has brought forward a few things from the POV chapter and GRRM even added one of those things himself in the episode he wrote in 3.07 (the reference to her past as a slave). I'm probably guilty of viewing Mel on the show through the filter of what I know of her in the POV and nodding approvingly when she's on screen because I know that even if she's doing shitty things, she's doing them for the greater good, or at least what SHE believes to be the greater good. And then I find it harder to imagine why show only people are so harsh on her. It gets messy! I was only ranting on my Tumblr last night about this very subject ;) I can't help getting over excited about her because she gets so little love in this fandom (ESPECIALLY from Stannis fans) That's also my favourite chapter! :D It's also the chapter I've re-read the most (I absolutely love everything about the it; the gloomy Dragonstone atmosphere; the introduction to Stannis/Davos/Mel/Selyse/Shireen/aso.; Cressen's view on Stannis and his brothers (his whole POV is so beautiful!); his tragic death; the dynamic between the characters; the refreshing new personalities after all the schemers in KL, aso...). And Mel's POV was besides Davos', Theon's, Asha's and Jon's my favourite in ADWD (Yeah, I just loved everything that happens in the North in that book XD). I can understand when people say she's the thing they hate about Stannis or say "If he'd get rid of her, I could like him", but nobody should deny she's an important aspect and part of his storyline and makes things more interesting and yes, more controversial (which I like, btw). Unsullied should just understand that Mel and Stannis are different persons, with different intentions and goals and their relationship is complicated... And oh, I'll definitely check your tumblr later! ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sati Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 And oh, I'll definitely check your tumblr later! ;) Her tumblr is heaven :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chebyshov Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 i would love for you to quote the part when I called him a villain. Here's the problem with you Stans, you take the position if anybody disagrees with your characterization that Stannis isn't perfect as automatically assuming that I think he's flat, one-dimensional and evil. My perspective of Stannis as a character is that he's more interested in his claim to the IT than saving the realm. He uses going north strategically to win Northern lords to his cause due to the power vacuum in the north. He is ultimately becoming more pragmatic and a better leader. I don't think he's the hero YOU PEOPLE make him out to be but I don't think he's a villain either. But yeah if its easier for you to categorize that as me thinking he is a villain than by all means go ahead. I don't wanna pop your hero worship bubble. I'm certainly not a Stannis fan, but I disagree with you about his reasons to go north. He is about to behead Davos until Davos reads the letter from the NW, so clearly that moved Stannis enough to spare Davos and go to The Wall. The contents of the letter have nothing to do with Northern houses and such, and Stannis knows well that the NW takes no sides in the war. Once he got north, sure, Stannis was pragmatic and thought about how given the fact that he just saved everyone from a Wilding invasion, maybe some Nothern Lords support would be willing to support him(and given that they'd be the first ones trampled by the Wildlings, it's not the dumbest thought). But I do think he was the "king who cared." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stannisismyking Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 That's also my favourite chapter! :D It's also the chapter I've re-read the most (I absolutely love everything about the it; the gloomy Dragonstone atmosphere; the introduction to Stannis/Davos/Mel/Selyse/Shireen/aso.; Cressen's view on Stannis and his brothers (his whole POV is so beautiful!); his tragic death; the dynamic between the characters; the refreshing new personalities after all the schemers in KL, aso...). And Mel's POV was besides Davos', Theon's, Asha's and Jon's my favourite in ADWD (Yeah, I just loved everything that happens in the North in that book XD). 1. Yes to all you've said about ACOK's prologue, I could just talk about it forever! I've read it so many times. Cressen breaks my heart. 2. Asha and Theon are amongst my faves too. Their ADWD chapters are hard to read in different ways, but equally compelling. ADWD seems to come in for a lot of criticism but I do enjoy the change of scene from KL (and I am a KL fan, it's just we got so MUCH of it in the previous books). And then the Theon chapter in TWOW is actually my third favourite chapter in the series. Stannis seems to be in such a bad place at the end of ADWD and there is such a contrast in TWOW when he's just putting everyone in their place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Onion Sleight Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 The BwB stuff was great; she just wasn't taking any shit from Thoros. But she was also humbled for a moment seeing what Thoros is capable of even though he's a drunken mess and she seems to be the "school swot" when it comes to her religion. I do appreciate all of her scenes with Stannis very much though. :smug: Very good description :laugh: Her tumblr is heaven :) I know ;) (I myself don't have tumblr, but I check/follow so many Stannis-tumblr-fansites, it's so wonderful what some people do on the internet! Included her and you!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonDunn Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 ONe thing that I've thought is that D and D might know that Mel is ultimately the far more important one in the endgame and that's why Mel gets more focus than Stan. I know that will make some Stannis fans mad, but you have to consider the possibility that Stannis is side character for Mel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guard of the Rainking Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 ONe thing that I've thought is that D and D might know that Mel is ultimately the far more important one in the endgame and that's why Mel gets more focus than Stan. I know that will make some Stannis fans mad, but you have to consider the possibility that Stannis is side character for Mel. Assemble... the Stan mob :tantrum: :angry2: :commie: :angry: :commie: :tantrum: :tantrum: :angry2: :angry: :commie: . Edit. Seriously though it's always a possibility, but I don't think that they've focused more on Mel than on Stan. IIRC Stannis has the most scenes of team Dragonstone as he should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stannisismyking Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 ONe thing that I've thought is that D and D might know that Mel is ultimately the far more important one in the endgame and that's why Mel gets more focus than Stan. I know that will make some Stannis fans mad, but you have to consider the possibility that Stannis is side character for Mel. :ph34r: Intriguing! GRRM has said he thinks she's the most misunderstood character in the series so perhaps he has big things in store for her..S5 will probably see a lot more machinations as she will be so much closer to where she considers the real "action" to be. I also don't think she's had more focus than Stannis up to this point though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.