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[Book Spoilers] EP407 Discussion

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That's an interesting observation that we'll have to keep an eye on.

I think that it had more to do with Lysa's reveal about Littlefinger's culpability in Arryn's poisoning and the letter to Catelyn two episodes ago, compounded with Lysa talking about it again in front of Sansa that forced Littlefinger to permanently shut her up.

I do think that it's up in the air, left up to Chaos as LF would say, about WHEN LF expected to get results out of Lysa seeing the kiss. I suspect that in the very least LF was setting up the jealousy to play up on Lysa's paranoia and then.......drop the bomb, errrrrrrr, drop her out the Moon Door. Then again, as I mentioned in another post, it could have ALL been a setup, Marillion included, with the singer always working for LF. While I do expect Marillion to meet the same fate as Dontos, it's hard to KNOW for sure, especially with Robert saying he still hears him in the night. It just all leaves me wondering........where was the setup, how far did it go, and I do agree, either way, that spiel by Lysa confirmed for LF that is was definately.................Time for Her to Fly. (Isn't that a song title?)

Edited by Lady Fevre Dream

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they had the perfect chance for tyrion to talk about tysha, but they didnt have him bring her up. "i sould have never believed that a whore could love me." he should have said. , "i should have learned my lesson the first time"

im starting to think that they are dropping that whole thing.

also, fucking sansa!. that whole segment of th show was amazing. i'll even forgive the "your sister" because it was so good. the stark theme as she walsk out... so many feels. that kiss. ugh. poor sophie. must have been pretty awkward to film.

I'm not so sure they've dropped it, the look on Jaime's face when Tyrion said that almost broke my heart. Just a look, but it spoke volumes I thought.

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They aged Jorah like 40 years looks like Dany left him out in the sun to rot as well, it is all very contrived anything they could do to make the Dany Shagging Daario more believable. I think it would of been smarter to have Daario sent off scouting and omitted the whole thing from the show. New Daario is awful.

I think Ian Glenn has been ill, certainly he's looking much older to me this season than the last... Excellent actor though, great for the character.

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Am I the only one who was mispronouncing "Lollys" this whole time?

Lollys is one name I did have right, it's Rorge that I had wrong all along. Who knew, he may be the Westerosi equivalent of French?? Then again, that could be the American of my accent, I never expected that little French twist in his name.

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I'm really surprised how critical some are being in this episode's feedback... stunned really. I thought the episode was phenomenal. Easily one of the best this season really... The depth of emotion in nearly all of the actors (except maybe Gregor Clegane and who cares, he's just a giant evil guy with a giant sword) - pretty much all were spot on perfect.

Oberyn / Tyrion scene blew me away... I cried like a baby. I cried for baby Tyrion who knew nothing but torment his whole life from Cersei and pretty much everyone except his brother who protected him. I cried for Elia and her children and the horrific way they died. I cried for Oberyn - because his vengeance is so lost and wasted. :( ... The look of hope in Tyrion's eyes at that moment when Oberyn said he would be his champion. I cried for that lost hope.

Every other scene was awesome too - even the weird Mel / Selyse scene. I liked the "Only Cat" scene even without the trademark two words being said - who cares, the moment was still very intense and well done.

This whole episode seemed to be about relationships between two people who were somewhat adversary yet partnered by fate ... did anyone notice that?

LOVED IT.

I even loved Littlefinger, funny batman villain voice and all. I love him!

:agree: with all of this. People complaining over Only Cat are just ridiculous. Someone mentioned it but Gillen's ever-changing accent might have mangled the words anyways and "your sister" has the same exact impact. We had just seen him talking to Sansa about her mother so saying "it's because the Unsullied wouldn't understand Cat" is a joke. A more realistic critique is how the hell are LF and Sansa going to get out of this one since there was no one else in the room? I'm not buying and I don't think the show trying to make us buy the Vale Lords buying "she just slipped" is a very good idea. Intelligent conversation would turn to trying to figure this one out.

Also Envie your relationships-partnered-by-fate idea is spot on. So many interesting dynamics right now and I like the buddy-cop-comedy-esque nature of the pairings. I actually LOL so hard at this point every time they have Arya kill someone, it's so ridiculous and over the top.

Finally just a musing here but I'm not sure I understand why everyone is bummed that we haven't heard more about the Sand Snakes yet. That plotline is going exactly where it should. Oberyn's brought up the fact that he has eight daughters and we don't actually meet any of them til pretty early in AFfC (IIRC Hotah's is the second chapter) where we meet Doran and three of them. It's going to be pretty obvious who they are when they all say variations of "my father was killed, we need to go to war". Just because they seem to be accelerating some plots doesn't mean they need to do that with all of them. While AFfC and ADwD are still very good they're quite the comedown, action wise, from Storm for very large chunks of time and pages, which will transfer to a good chunk of episodes at the beginning of S5. Relax.

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I'm just glad we don't have 3D or that moon door would terrify me.

I'm terrified reading about it!

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The audience might have gotten confused though, they may have thought Littlefinger was saying he only loved cats.

And to think.........we might not get another Ser Pounce appearance, not to mention Lady Whiskers and Boots.

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Incredibly weird but I was struck how much Daniel and Joe (Pod and Gendry) look alike. I mean, it was uncanny really. That's all I'll say.

I thought the same thing...... IRL relation maybe

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Yeah, it's a classic HBO trailer Red Herring. Mastered on the Sopranos and skillfully used again and again everywhere since.

Also: Godfather

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I still think "OnlyCat" is one of those book-fan things that started to take on it's own dynamic in places like these. So you get book-readers exchanging knowing looks, saying how "OnlyCat is going to happen this season/next week", whatever, with Show-watchers looking confused, wondering what that means. And then the scene comes up and LF says "your sister". So the show-watchers say "What was that Only Cat thing now?" and suddenly the book-fans look somewhat silly. So the only thing left to do is to go into a deep think and make up a whole paragraph about why it had to be "Only Cat", why that line is of such importance and why it should not have been altered.

:agree: I had to laugh when he said it..."oh no here we go"

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I don't buy that argument. The same argument can be made if one wants to nitpick Cersei calling Jaime the Lord Commander, instead of Jaime or brother. It's just book readers clawing for straws.

While I'm not a purist who flips out at everything, while I do my best to go with the flow and enjoy the show (hell, I LMAO at Robb and Talisa and love at first sight over an amputation and dream up scenes of them and Ramsey being jealous, not to mention, you KNOW that Robb would have loved to watch Talisa at least do the Qyburn job on Jaime's hand), I don't think your example illustrates anything other than the point that how names or titles are used do mean something. Cersei is calling Jaime Lord Commander to establish distance between them, as each did many times in the books, such as Jaime using Your Grace with Cersei. That goes back and forth alot in the books, and it's them showing us, and each other, their developing distance. Just as 'only Cat' speaks of a man saying the name of the woman he claimed to love his whole life, who was on the show for three seasons and whose corpse will most likely be seen again.......instead of saying 'your sister' because, well, they don't seem to trust some with memory of details. FFS, if people, book readers or not, don't know who Catelyn Tully Stark was........they certainly don't know off hand who Lysa's sister is.

Not all complaints are because, OH NO........it's different from the books. And not all who complain......hate the show, they might just actually want to see it done a bit better. They may want D&D to have some trust in the viewers. They may want changes to actually be improvements or at least a draw. It's not always a declaration of war, it's just discussion.

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I still think "OnlyCat" is one of those book-fan things that started to take on it's own dynamic in places like these. So you get book-readers exchanging knowing looks, saying how "OnlyCat is going to happen this season/next week", whatever, with Show-watchers looking confused, wondering what that means. And then the scene comes up and LF says "your sister". So the show-watchers say "What was that Only Cat thing now?" and suddenly the book-fans look somewhat silly. So the only thing left to do is to go into a deep think and make up a whole paragraph about why it had to be "Only Cat", why that line is of such importance and why it should not have been altered.

That reminds me, GRRM was on Conan (who's a big fan of the show) a few days ago and he mentioned Ser Pounce, and how everyone loved it and how big he was. Conan and Andy were like "Err, what the hell is Ser Pounce?" And GRRM just kind of sat there looking awkward.

Edited by Blood Loss

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That reminds me, GRRM was on Conan (who's a big fan of the show) a few days ago and he mentioned Ser Pounce, and how everyone loved it and how big he was. Conan and Andy were like "Err, what the hell is Ser Pounce?" And GRRM just kind of sat their looking awkward.

LOL and thanks for that. I saw the Conan commercial with GRRM, but haven't watched the segment yet. I need to check that out, thanks again. :cheers:

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I didnt liked this ep. In book Rorge was decent fighter that died after long duel, in he show he was random retard and got stabbed by little girl. And Jon Snow get all Bowen Marsh there with sealing the gates thing. :bang:


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I never expected Hot Pie will inform Brienne and Pod about Arya. I really hoped it would be Gendry.

GENDRY, WHERE ARE YOU???

In season 5 Tyrion will come across a rotting boat out in the ocean with Gendry's skeleton in it. He'll comment on it with a droll witticism and that'll be it for Gendry.

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Suicide or slip... none is plausible. In the vale everyone hates Littlefinger. Suddenly he appears on the vale, marry the lady and she is dead early after. How suicide or slip will not sound suspicious? "Lysa is notorious mad" she has a child of only 8 years old.

If Sansa testifies on his behalf, he will be exonerated.

Edited by sj4iy

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If Sansa testifies on his behalf, he will be exonerated.

Why should we buy that though? Of course LF's bastard daughter would be coached to testify on her father's behalf and prove his innocence. If he portrays her as Sansa Stark her word would probably have even less worth. This is actually a very interesting challenge for D&D for once and I can't wait to see how they get them out of this. Using a she-just-slipped excuse shouldn't be enough for viewers to buy that the Vale lords would buy that excuse. Truly an interesting predicament.

Edited by When Harry met Sansa

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Good point, Harry. I don't think it'll be too difficult though. "My wife caught me having a moment with my bastard daughter and got jealous I hadn't spent as much time with her. She tried to kill Alayne and cut it a little too close, if you know what I mean."

Seems a simple enough explanation.

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