Jon's Decision to Go South

[Fire Eater]

Jon's decision in his final POV has been controversial. Many people have criticized Jon's actions, although I think they have the benefit of not being in Jon's shoes. I think Jon did the right thing given the circumstances. I am going to go through each argument, and show where it falters.

1. Jon should not have tried to leave CB

The problem with that is if the Pink Letter was true, then eventually the Boltons would come to CB and pose a threat to everyone there. Even if he sent Selyse and her party away, CB would still be visited by the Boltons eventually.

2. Jon should have given in Bolton's demands for the greater good of the NW

Ramsay offered Jon mercy, but that was the same offer he gave to the Ironmen at Moat Cailin whose flayed corpses he nailed to posts along the kingsroad. That was also the same offer Roose made to squatters at WF whom he hanged after they practically rebuilt the castle. We have no reason to believe that the Boltons would have spared Jon even if he cooperated with them, and who knows how many members of the NW and wildlings they would have killed with him.

Jon would also be violating guest right by handing over the people Ramsay demanded in the letter. While there is a chance Selyse and her party might have been sent to KL, Val would likely be used for Ramsay's sport.

3. Jon shouldn't have meddled in affairs of the realm

"Because," his father said, in a tone that suggested Tyrion was quite the simpleton, "If they [NW] do not vote as they are told, their Wall will melt before it sees another man."

Except what about the realm meddling with the NW? Tywin tried to influence who was going to be LC, saying if they didn't elect Slynt, they wouldn't get anymore prisoners sent to the Wall. Cersei refused to send any men to Jon, and was plotting to have him murdered. Stannis came to the Wall, and so did Alys Karstark.

As for Jon and Stannis, Stannis came to the Wall out of his own free will, and he aided them in the Battle of the Wall. Did anyone expect Jon to say "Thanks for saving our asses back there, now get lost"? Besides, Stannis had thrice the fighting men Jon had, and could make the NW accept his demands by force.

As for Mance and the spearwives, Jon didn't send them to WF.

Could his sister truly have escaped such captors? How would she do that? Arya was always quick and clever, but in the end she's just a little girl, and Roose Bolton is not the sort who would be careless with a prize of such great worth.

I think Apple is right, Jon thought Mel's vision meant that Arya would escape the Boltons by herself, and she would be riding up the kingsroad to CB, with Mance and the spearwives simply meeting her somewhere along the kingsroad and escorting her to CB. Mel sent them to WF without Jon's knowledge.

4. Bowen Marsh did the right thing by executing Jon

This one baffles me the most. What Marsh did doesn't qualify as execution, and it doesn't fit any legal definition of execution. Ned had to tell Garrett what he was charged with before the execution and Ned was acting as judge with the authority of the king. Marsh didn't bother to arrest Jon, or go through a legal process to convict him. What Marsh did was extra-judicial murder. Jon was still at CB so he technically hadn't deserted, and he wasn't leaving the NW order, he never said that in his speech. Besides, it wasn't Marsh spontaneously killing Jon leaving CB, but he had been planning Jon's assassination for a while.

Conclusion

Jon had hardly any options atm in his last POV as he couldn't simply stay at CB. He was defending the Wall from a threat to the south, as the life of the LC was threatened and the Boltons had effectively declared war on the NW. He basically saw going south to deal with the Boltons as his only option, sacrificing himself.

[Loose Bolton]

Just something to add to your arguments (i agree with all of them). Jon understood that the NW as currently constituted could not serve its purpose. This gives him license to break with any and all traditions. The NW was already a disaster and a failure.

His great error was in sending all of his closest NW allies to other stations. Perhaps Grenn or Pyp or Edd would have caught wind of rumors. Easy to keep a secret from the man in charge, not so easy to keep a secret from other soldiers. Also, it is possible that Marsh and his allies would not have worked up the courage for such a plan if Jon did not seem so isolated.

[Not Dead Just Broken]

Jon's decision in his final POV has been controversial. Many people have criticized Jon's actions, although I think they have the benefit of not being in Jon's shoes. I think Jon did the right thing given the circumstances. I am going to go through each argument, and show where it falters.

1. Jon should not have tried to leave CB

The problem with that is if the Pink Letter was true, then eventually the Boltons would come to CB and pose a threat to everyone there. Even if he sent Selyse and her party away, CB would still be visited by the Boltons eventually.

2. Jon should have given in Bolton's demands for the greater good of the NW

Ramsay offered Jon mercy, but that was the same offer he gave to the Ironmen at Moat Cailin whose flayed corpses he nailed to posts along the kingsroad. That was also the same offer Roose made to squatters at WF whom he hanged after they practically rebuilt the castle. We have no reason to believe that the Boltons would have spared Jon even if he cooperated with them, and who knows how many members of the NW and wildlings they would have killed with him.

Jon would also be violating guest right by handing over the people Ramsay demanded in the letter. While there is a chance Selyse and her party might have been sent to KL, Val would likely be used for Ramsay's sport.

3. Jon shouldn't have meddled in affairs of the realm

"Because," his father said, in a tone that suggested Tyrion was quite the simpleton, "If they [NW] do not vote as they are told, their Wall will melt before it sees another man."

Except what about the realm meddling with the NW? Tywin tried to influence who was going to be LC, saying if they didn't elect Slynt, they wouldn't get anymore prisoners sent to the Wall. Cersei refused to send any men to Jon, and was plotting to have him murdered. Stannis came to the Wall, and so did Alys Karstark.

As for Jon and Stannis, Stannis came to the Wall out of his own free will, and he aided them in the Battle of the Wall. Did anyone expect Jon to say "Thanks for saving our asses back there, now get lost"? Besides, Stannis had thrice the fighting men Jon had, and could make the NW accept his demands by force.

As for Mance and the spearwives, Jon didn't send them to WF.

Could his sister truly have escaped such captors? How would she do that? Arya was always quick and clever, but in the end she's just a little girl, and Roose Bolton is not the sort who would be careless with a prize of such great worth.

I think Apple is right, Jon thought Mel's vision meant that Arya would escape the Boltons by herself, and she would be riding up the kingsroad to CB, with Mance and the spearwives simply meeting her somewhere along the kingsroad and escorting her to CB. Mel sent them to WF without Jon's knowledge.

4. Bowen Marsh did the right thing by executing Jon

This one baffles me the most. What Marsh did doesn't qualify as execution, and it doesn't fit any legal definition of execution. Ned had to tell Garrett what he was charged with before the execution and Ned was acting as judge with the authority of the king. Marsh didn't bother to arrest Jon, or go through a legal process to convict him. What Marsh did was extra-judicial murder. Jon was still at CB so he technically hadn't deserted, and he wasn't leaving the NW order, he never said that in his speech. Besides, it wasn't Marsh spontaneously killing Jon leaving CB, but he had been planning Jon's assassination for a while.

Conclusion

Jon had hardly any options atm in his last POV as he couldn't simply stay at CB. He was defending the Wall from a threat to the south, as the life of the LC was threatened and the Boltons had effectively declared war on the NW. He basically saw going south to deal with the Boltons as his only option, sacrificing himself.

1. Jon should have absolutely not tried to march an army on Winterfell. In fact, he shouldn't have sent his agents (Mance and the Spearwives) to Winterfell to try to kidnap "Arya" whether on the road to Winterfell or at Winterfell. Remember, the Pink Letter (if it is actually Ramsay's doing) was not unprovoked. He meddled in the affairs of the realm before the Pink Letter. People disregard that.

2. Jon has no knowledge of the surrender of Moat Cailin. He can figure out the terms of the surrender. He also has no obligation under guest right to continue to house his guests. As long as they're in his protection he can't harm them. However, he does nothing to help his cause by marching a wildling army on Winterfell. The Night's Watch and its wildling allies cannot stand up to the power of the Iron Throne. The only way he wins is if the Pink Letter is lying (I tend to think it is) and Stannis is not actually dead. If Stannis is dead, Jon's fight is hopeless. His guests face the same fate whether he marches on Winterfell or not. In fact, his best hope of victory is to fortify Castle Black not attack the snowbound Winterfell.

3. The attempts by the Lannisters to influence the election of the next Lord Commander are not justifications for marrying off Alys Karstark, giving away castles to Stannis or any of the other meddling Jon does as LC. This isn't a relationship between equals. The Night's Watch has no way of getting new men except by people being sent or volunteering for the Wall. If the Iron Throne decides to stop sending people to the wall, there will very quickly be no Night's Watch.

4. It isn't an execution. It's an assassination. It is also entirely justified. Jon is a threat to the continuation of the Night's Watch and "For the Watch," he has to be stopped. Jon doesn't listen to Bowen Marsh's advice. He doesn't see how stupid he's being. He's not going to stop on his own. This was the only available path. They understand that they will likely die for it.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Well, Ygritte didn't mind.

[Asha's Suckling Babe]

Was riding south really the best option?

a. What advantage could he have meeting Boltons who are hiding behind walls of WF? I know the Castle Black is not meant to be defended from attacks from south, but they could have prepared for the attack best they can and had better chances than riding through snow storm to attack Boltons who reside in a well defended castle.

b. It will look very different to people of Westeros if the NW defends themselves or if NW LC leads wildlings to attack northmen. Boltons might have found it difficult to convince northern houses to ride with them to attack the wall, but it would be easier to convince them to defend their lands from a wildling band invading their lands.

Assuming he would decide he needs to ride south, there are still several things he should have done better:

1. He did not discuss his desicion with any NW members. When you do all your plotting with wildings, it gives the impression you are, well, plotting with wildlings. And this was definitely such a big decision that he should have discussed it with his officers before announcing it to everyone.

2. He did not present the ride to south as something the NW needed to do. He presented it as something he was going to do, and invited others to join if they want. If he felt that riding south was necessary for the NW he could have, with his authority as LC commanded NW members to follow him. Instead he presented his decision to ride south as a personal revenge for the death of Stannis and speculated it might be oathbreaking.

4. He was going to do the Hardhome ranging and the attack south at the same time, leaving the Wall defenseless. And he not only stepped down from leading the unpopular ranging, but appointed wilding Tormund to lead it. Jon would be leading wildlings south, while a wilding would be leading majority of NW north. This really looks bad.

5. He had previously made a promise that he would not let wildlings south of Gift. If he wanted to go back on this promise, he should have informed NW members and Mountain clans (to whom he had made the promise) in advance. He also did no selecting in whether the wildings who would follow him were trustworthy and willing to come back to the Wall if the Boltons were defeated, and instead was willing to take anyone who wanted to ride south.

[Fire Eater]

1. Jon should have absolutely not tried to march an army on Winterfell. In fact, he shouldn't have sent his agents (Mance and the Spearwives) to Winterfell to try to kidnap "Arya" whether on the road to Winterfell or at Winterfell. Remember, the Pink Letter (if it is actually Ramsay's doing) was not unprovoked. He meddled in the affairs of the realm before the Pink Letter. People disregard that.

I don'y think you read the entire post, Jon didn't send them to WF, he thought they were picking Arya up along the kingsroad. Mel sent them to WF. What did you expect him to do> Wait fro Ramsa to come to CB?

2. Jon has no knowledge of the surrender of Moat Cailin. He can figure out the terms of the surrender. He also has no obligation under guest right to continue to house his guests. As long as they're in his protection he can't harm them. However, he does nothing to help his cause by marching a wildling army on Winterfell. The Night's Watch and its wildling allies cannot stand up to the power of the Iron Throne. The only way he wins is if the Pink Letter is lying (I tend to think it is) and Stannis is not actually dead. If Stannis is dead, Jon's fight is hopeless. His guests face the same fate whether he marches on Winterfell or not. In fact, his best hope of victory is to fortify Castle Black not attack the snowbound Winterfell.

2. Jon has no reason to believe the Boltons would spare him. He does have obligation under guest right, a violation is serious as the reaction to the RW proved. He couldn't wait for them to come to CB. CB was not meant to be defended from the south. Fortifying CB against an incoming army is bad strategic decision, but it would be better to bring the battle to them, someplace along the kingsroad, and wait for the Boltons to come past, and ambush them.

3. The attempts by the Lannisters to influence the election of the next Lord Commander are not justifications for marrying off Alys Karstark, giving away castles to Stannis or any of the other meddling Jon does as LC. This isn't a relationship between equals. The Night's Watch has no way of getting new men except by people being sent or volunteering for the Wall. If the Iron Throne decides to stop sending people to the wall, there will very quickly be no Night's Watch.

3. I admit Alys may have been an overstep but it solved the problem of Sigorn, Magnar of Thenn. As I have already stated before, Stannis could take all the castles from Jon at swordpoint, he has thrice the fighting men Jon does. They are also to be garrisoned against the Others not the Lannisters.

4. It isn't an execution. It's an assassination. It is also entirely justified. Jon is a threat to the continuation of the Night's Watch and "For the Watch," he has to be stopped. Jon doesn't listen to Bowen Marsh's advice. He doesn't see how stupid he's being. He's not going to stop on his own. This was the only available path. They understand that they will likely die for it.

4. A threat? It wasn't spontaneous, they were planning to kill him for a while. Even if he hadn't decided to go to WF, they would have likely tried to kill him.

Assuming he would decide he needs to ride south, there are still several things he should have done better:

1. He did not discuss his desicion with any NW members. When you do all your plotting with wildings, it gives the impression you are, well, plotting with wildlings. And this was definitely such a big decision that he should have discussed it with his officers before announcing it to everyone.

1. He is LC, the NW men are bound to obey him. Giving a speech=/=plotting. Jon gave the wildlings an offer to stand with him.

2. He did not present the ride to south as something the NW needed to do. He presented it as something he was going to do, and invited others to join if they want. If he felt that riding south was necessary for the NW he could have, with his authority as LC commanded NW members to follow him. Instead he presented his decision to ride south as a personal revenge for the death of Stannis and speculated it might be oathbreaking.

2. He read the letter which included the threat to his life. I agree he should have told the NW that he planned to deal with a threat to the south.

4. He was going to do the Hardhome ranging and the attack south at the same time, leaving the Wall defenseless. And he not only stepped down from leading the unpopular ranging, but appointed wilding Tormund to lead it. Jon would be leading wildlings south, while a wilding would be leading majority of NW north. This really looks bad.

3. The Others couldn't get past the Wall still, and the Boltons were the only threat south of the Wall. Tormund would be leading a rescue mission north not on a military campaign, and Jon didn't say Tormund would be taking the majority of the NW, but mostly wildlings.

5. He had previously made a promise that he would not let wildlings south of Gift. If he wanted to go back on this promise, he should have informed NW members and Mountain clans (to whom he had made the promise) in advance. He also did no selecting in whether the wildings who would follow him were trustworthy and willing to come back to the Wall if the Boltons were defeated, and instead was willing to take anyone who wanted to ride south.

4. I guess desperate times call for desperate measures.

[Minsc]

I don'y think you read the entire post, Jon didn't send them to WF, he thought they were picking Arya up along the kingsroad. Mel sent them to WF. What did you expect him to do> Wait fro Ramsa to come to CB?

He isn't supposed to do either thus either way he already inferred before Ramsay responded to him, even if the final encounter isn't what he planned.

2. Jon has no reason to believe the Boltons would spare him. He does have obligation under guest right, a violation is serious as the reaction to the RW proved. He couldn't wait for them to come to CB. CB was not meant to be defended from the south. Fortifying CB against an incoming army is bad strategic decision, but it would be better to bring the battle to them, someplace along the kingsroad, and wait for the Boltons to come past, and ambush them.

I doubt guest right mentions that the host can never ask his guests to leave, thus Jon could easily have set Selyse and Shireen out and left them for Ramsay. A worse strategic decision is marching through snowstorms to attack a stronger force in a better defensive position for them. Then again, Jon has never shown any real strategic skill despite the constant praise heaped upon him.

3. I admit Alys may have been an overstep but it solved the problem of Sigorn, Magnar of Thenn. As I have already stated before, Stannis could take all the castles from Jon at swordpoint, he has thrice the fighting men Jon does. They are also to be garrisoned against the Others not the Lannisters.

That doesn't mean that his actions cannot be taken as readily antagonizing the Boltons.

4. A threat? It wasn't spontaneous, they were planning to kill him for a while. Even if he hadn't decided to go to WF, they would have likely tried to kill him.

Proof? Additionally, if they were planning before it was likely to the various other actions he did that ignored his oaths or just achieved any goal that he felt like while ignoring their views.

1. He is LC, the NW men are bound to obey him. Giving a speech=/=plotting. Jon gave the wildlings an offer to stand with him.

And Joffrey was king, thus everyone should listen to him. A position power doesn't mean you should do whatever you want while ignoring your underlings.

2. He read the letter which included the threat to his life. I agree he should have told the NW that he planned to deal with a threat to the south.

Because of his actions.

[Not Dead Just Broken]

I don'y think you read the entire post, Jon didn't send them to WF, he thought they were picking Arya up along the kingsroad. Mel sent them to WF. What did you expect him to do> Wait fro Ramsa to come to CB?

2. Jon has no reason to believe the Boltons would spare him. He does have obligation under guest right, a violation is serious as the reaction to the RW proved. He couldn't wait for them to come to CB. CB was not meant to be defended from the south. Fortifying CB against an incoming army is bad strategic decision, but it would be better to bring the battle to them, someplace along the kingsroad, and wait for the Boltons to come past, and ambush them.

3. I admit Alys may have been an overstep but it solved the problem of Sigorn, Magnar of Thenn. As I have already stated before, Stannis could take all the castles from Jon at swordpoint, he has thrice the fighting men Jon does. They are also to be garrisoned against the Others not the Lannisters.

4. A threat? It wasn't spontaneous, they were planning to kill him for a while. Even if he hadn't decided to go to WF, they would have likely tried to kill him.

1. Let's say it was the real Arya riding to Castle Black and Mance just picked her up on the road and brought her back to Castle Black. She's still Ramsay's legally married wife. Jon has no business within Westerosi culture of keeping Ramsay from his wife. He says so himself. He's trying to use the Mance's status as a wildling to his own ends. Still, why on earth does he need Spearwives if all he's doing is picking her up on the road somewhere? Jon should have figured out or at very least asked what the plan was. He's interfering in the affairs of the realm.

2. Jon has no indication that the Boltons are en route from Winterfell. In fact, Ramsay invites him to Winterfell to see Mance indicating that Ramsay is in no rush to attack. The attack is not imminent and Winterfell is a week's ride under good conditions (and conditions aren't good). He has plenty of time to tell Selyse that he can no longer guarantee her safety and ask her to leave. At any rate, Jon doesn't mention guest right. In fact he explicitly says that he has no obligation to Selyse:

It is not for us to oppose the Bastard of Bolton, to avenge Stannis Baratheon, to defend his widow and his daughter. This creature who makes cloaks from the skins of women has sworn to cut my heart out, and I mean to make him answer for those words ... but I will not ask my brothers to forswear their vows.

He attacks because Ramsay threatens him personally. That's it.

3. Then let Stannis take them at sword point. He has to at least pretend to dislike it for the sake of keeping the peace with the Iron Throne. He has to pretend to be neutral.

4. Yeah, Jon's been a threat for a while. Bowen Marsh basically gets more and more pissed off through ADWD. It culminates in the assassination.

[RoamingRonin]

What are the chances the Ramsay and his men would reach Castle Black? Look at Stannis. If the letter was real then Ramsay and his forces would have suffered loses as well and would be in no real condition to march on the Wall.

What bothers me is that Jon immediately believes everything in the letter and decides to march. No recon, no nothing.

[Asha's Suckling Babe]

1. He is LC, the NW men are bound to obey him. Giving a speech=/=plotting. Jon gave the wildlings an offer to stand with him.

2. He read the letter which included the threat to his life. I agree he should have told the NW that he planned to deal with a threat to the south.

3. The Others couldn't get past the Wall still, and the Boltons were the only threat south of the Wall. Tormund would be leading a rescue mission north not on a military campaign, and Jon didn't say Tormund would be taking the majority of the NW, but mostly wildlings.

4. I guess desperate times call for desperate measures.

1. I of course did not mean giving a speech is plotting. Discussing your plans before the speech would be the part that is plotting. Certainly he does not need to discuss every decision he makes with his officers, but when you have received a letter that looks like a declaration of war, you first discuss it with your own men (at least few officers or other trusted advisers), and then inform all others (Queen's men, wildings, guests at the wall). And Jon was well aware that even before this his men had been mistrustful of him and his close relations with wildlings.

2. It's not only that he failed to sufficiently present the Boltons as a threat to the NW. He named avenging Stannis (who very few others than Jon wanted to support) his main goal, saying he knew that avenging him is not the job of NW, and suspected the act might be oathbreaking. His speech as much as possible presented his ride to south as anything but NW business.

3. It was a doomed rescue mission which was already unpopular before Tormund was chosen to lead. The NW members don't trust Tormund and now Jon wants to force them to follow him. If Jon wants to present the Hardhome mission as a mission of the NW, it should be lead by a member of NW. Jon didn't say how many NW men Tormund would take, he was giving Tormund the chance to take as many as he likes:

The ranging will be led by Tormund Giantsbane, known to you all. I have promised him as many men as he requires.

Tormund had only ever promised dozens of men to the ranging, and several of them would possibly now be following Jon instead.

4. It was not such a desperate time that he would not have had time to plan thing better. The letter did not indicate Boltons would be marching to the Wall anytime soon, quite the opposite. They were expecting a response. Also there was a snow storm.

[Asha's Suckling Babe]

I doubt guest right mentions that the host can never ask his guests to leave, thus Jon could easily have set Selyse and Shireen out and left them for Ramsay. A worse strategic decision is marching through snowstorms to attack a stronger force in a better defensive position for them. Then again, Jon has never shown any real strategic skill despite the constant praise heaped upon him.

Yes, so much. When you decide to ride through a snow storm to meat a enemy in a good defensive position, instead of preparing for yourself as good a defensive position as you can while they deal with the fucking snow storm, you should not be winning any medals for strategic planning.

[Lady of the Falls]

IMO Marsh killed Jon for this simple reason, he didn't like Jon's decision to let the wildlings join the NW plain and simple. From that moment everything Jon did raked his nerves. But Jon was right to let the wildlings join he said it himself that he didn't believe after finding out that wrights and others existed that the NW was founded to protect the realm from wildlings which is very true. Letting them join was actually brilliant idea.

I think Jon knew about Boltons treatment of people he claimed he would spare, so far the books have portrayed that the lords and ladies know whats going on or whats happened of importance around the realm. Imo ,though I love Jon, feel he shouldn't have gone after Ramsey. He was doing a good job staying out of the affairs of the realm as best he could until then. It's true Stannis didn't need to ask Jon for anything he could have just taken it. Stannis was the only one to show up when they needed someone so that had to count for something in Jon's eyes.

I truly hope Jon survives and that someone has come to his defense. I'm optimistic he does survive only because it didn't seem final at the end of the chapter.

[Good Guy Garlan]

What are the chances the Ramsay and his men would reach Castle Black? Look at Stannis. If the letter was real then Ramsay and his forces would have suffered loses as well and would be in no real condition to march on the Wall.

What bothers me is that Jon immediately believes everything in the letter and decides to march. No recon, no nothing.

Exactly this

It was the stupidest thing. Winterfell is a castle made to withstand sieges in winter, and Jon knows it. What difference would he made by marching there? Assuming he gets there in one piece then what? Freeze and starve in the snow while Bolton remains safely inside the castle walls

If Ramsay wanted to go all the way to the Wall, and freeze his ass marching through the snow with men of uncertain loyalty, Jon should have let him

Castle Black may be vulnerable to the south, but I'd take defending a vulnerable castle against uncertain threats over besieging a strong castle with certain enemies inside, any day

[LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse]

I have no problem with his dealings with Stannis i see them as trading, with the only lord (king) that actually helped the Watch.

But the thing of having his POV is that we can read about his thoughts and feelings. Jon did things thinking in his sister, not the good of the realm.

He did send Mance and the spearwives. They were his "men": Since he "traded" the wildling prisioners.

“Your Grace, I know where you might find more men. Give me the wildlings, and I will gladly tell you where and how.”

“I gave you Rattleshirt. Be content with him.”

“I want them all.”

“Some of your own Sworn Brothers would have me believe that you are half a wildling yourself. Is it true?”

“To you they are only arrow fodder. I can make better use of them upon the Wall. Give them to me to do with as I will, and I’ll show you where to find your victory … and men as well.”

(...)

If I can smash the ironmen as well, the north will know it has a king again.”

And I will have a thousand wildlings, thought Jon, and no way to feed even half that number.

.

. He actually conspired to steal the bride of the Lord of Winterfell.

With respect to the threat, and the response.. i think he has the right to defend the NW, just as long as he does so in his own jurisdiction (the gift). Ramsay has no authority to threaten the NW, nor to impose terms. I think the LC of the NW has the same authority that any other Lord, and disputes between lords should be solved through the correct channel, that is through the Lord Paramount. In this case, Roose Bolton. If the letter was sent by Roose things would be different.

But that means Jon can´t launch a preemptive strike neither, and that is what he meant to do. In that he made a fateful decision.

[Asha's Suckling Babe]

With respect to the threat, and the response.. i think he has the right to defend the NW, just as long as he does so in his own jurisdiction (the gift). Ramsay has no authority to threaten the NW, nor to impose terms. I think the LC of the NW has the same authority that any other Lord, and disputes between lords should be solved through the correct channel, that is through the Lord Paramount. In this case, Roose Bolton. If the letter was sent by Roose things would be different.

But that means Jon can´t launch a preemptive strike neither, and that is what he meant to do. In that he made a fateful decision.

That's a very good point, I had not even considered that.

[Dirk blitzen]

I love how people hate jon cause he broods... And then when he acts rashly... People still hate him...

[PopcornSutton]

If the nights watch truly did not "meddle" they would have been extinct.

I find it funny that some believe that the NW should be 100% completely black/white in a book that is nothing but shades of gray.

[Defeatarion]

Yeah I still can't believe how south he went too. And with his tongue! Ygritte sure lov..........ohhhhh you mean the letter....

[LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse]

one could speculate that he should have executed Mance Rayder as well...a desertor and traitor.

it sounds like the capital punishement for the likes of him is law. An imposition of the rest of the realm if you will. I don´t think the Lord Commander has a choice in this because:

Do you understand why I did it?”

“He was a wildling,” Bran said. “They carry off women and sell them to the Others.”

His lord father smiled. “Old Nan has been telling you stories again. In truth, the man was an oathbreaker, a deserter from the Night’s Watch. No man is more dangerous. The deserter knows his life is forfeit if he is taken, so he will not flinch from any crime, no matter how vile.

[KINGpanther]

What is Marsh's plan? Obviously he thinks he will be LC after Jon's gone but we know his feelings towards the Wildlings so he will try to kick them out or kill them, losing manpower. Then the men of the NW will be split, Jon loyaltists v Marsh supporters, losing manpower again. So whats his plan when the Walkers march on the Wall?