US Politics: we are all liberals, we are all conservatives

[OccupyHarrenhal]

Here it comes. The poor fuck is gonna get Breitbarted by the wingnuts.

Breitbart.com had old articles about the Obama administration not doing enough to free Berghdal, which they then promptly deleted so they could criticize the government for freeing him.

[Shryke]

Breitbart.com had old articles about the Obama administration not doing enough to free Berghdal, which they then promptly deleted so they could criticize the government for freeing him.

I see their are continuing that shitbags legacy in fine form.

[Wise Fool]

"Bergdahl" is, vaguely, similar to "Benghazi." Put these two together and you get a 2016 GOP campaign!

[awesome possum]

The deaths he blames on Bergdahl are due to the searches these guys had to conduct trying to find this jerk.

If you're going to treat Bethea's word as gospel, why don't you read the rest of what he wrote. I know, I know, that would require an ability to read and comprehend something instead of being told what to think but let's try, okay? I'll even break it down into one small sentence so its easier for you. This should be the end of the entire issue but, well, common sense often fails against RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE:

Retrieving him at least reminds soldiers that we will never abandon them to their fates, right or wrong.

[Frog Eater]

Merentha,

walking away from your unit while stationed in a Forward Operating Base (FOB) is desertion.

I agree that he should be brought home. He possibly has some mental issues that played a strong part in his desertion.

despite those mental issues, if it is proven that he gave useful information to the enemy that played a part in the death of American troops, he should be convicted of treason

everyone makes mistakes, and I can acknowledge that. He deserted his post, and if it ended there, he could face some UCMJ and we can all go about our business. But six soldiers died looking for him. Attacks on the FOBs increased after he deserted. Those things make his desertion a big deal.

[ants]

In the UK, like every other western country, Europeans are considered to be white. Branding people as racists is just a handy way to shut down debate. You're worried about the effects of immigration? Well you're not allowed to discuss that because it's racist. Rinse and repeat.

I live in the UK. Yes, the British consider the different natives of Europe white. They don't consider them the same race though.

It's some achievement to be racist towards people of your own race. Maybe you're thinking of xenophobia or maybe you're just sounding off, but if you ever feel like making an actual argument let me know.

But they're different races. Saxons, Normans and other tribes made up the original peoples of Europe.

Yeah OK, a word has whatever meaning you decide it should. That's cute. Meantime on the planet Earth as a white Caucasian other white Caucasians are the same race as me.

You realise how American it is to refer to groups within Europe as "Caucasian"? Do you consider everyone in Asia, whether the middle east, subcontinent, Siberia or east Asia all as the same race because they're all part of Asia???

Do you think the Africans all consider themselves one race? Even within say sub-Saharan Africa?

[NoneofYourBiz]

If you're going to treat Bethea's word as gospel, why don't you read the rest of what he wrote. I know, I know, that would require an ability to read and comprehend something instead of being told what to think but let's try, okay? I'll even break it down into one small sentence so its easier for you. This should be the end of the entire issue but, well, common sense often fails against RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE:

Retrieving him at least reminds soldiers that we will never abandon them to their fates, right or wrong.

Being told what to think? LOL Oh, the irony of the Racism! Benghazi! Teahadi! circle jerk club telling people they are being told what to think.

I read what Bethea wrote and comprehend what he said completely. I don't even disagree.

I disagree with this guy being called a POW, which he was not. I disagree with him being hailed as some sort of hero. I disagree with Susan Rice's assertion that he served with honor and distinction. I disagree that handing over the 5 from Guantanamo to get him was a reasonable thing to do.

I have no problem with him being brought back, it is the manner of it I disagree with. He should now be court martialed.

[Commodore]

Did the men who died (several of them fathers) looking for this shitbird deserter get a Rose Garden ceremony like Begdahl's family got?

Taliban should have held out for more. Obama might have given up KSM to get the VA scandal out of the headlines.

[awesome possum]

I disagree with this guy being called a POW, which he was not.

Where's your proof of this? Because until you can prove this then everything you say is tainted with this abject stupidity.

[Commodore]

Where's your proof of this? Because until you can prove this then everything you say is tainted with this abject stupidity.

Has anyone who served with Begdahl said he wasn't a deserter?

[Horza]

Obama might have given up KSM to get the VA scandal out of the headlines.

Doubt they want the bloke, he and his Arab mates have caused them enough trouble as it is.

[awesome possum]

Has anyone who served with Begdahl said he wasn't a deserter?

From Bethea's article:

His fellow soldiers later mentioned his stated desire to walk from Afghanistan to India.

One can desert and still be taken prisoner. Is this even debatable?

[The Marquis de Leech]

Surely if the guy is a deserter, he can now be prosecuted by US military authorities? Is that therefore not a good thing?

[awesome possum]

Surely if the guy is a deserter, he can now be prosecuted by US military authorities? Is that therefore not a good thing?

Apparently not. As was pointed out above, breitbart deleted articles from a couple years ago railing against Obama for not bringing this guy home so that they could avoid looking even dumber than usual for now railing against Obama for bringing this guy home.

Seriously, only the Republican party of today could be outraged about the Obama administration for bringing home a prisoner of war. The Obama Derangement Syndrome is off the charts.

Tomasky has a good piece here. I'm going to quote the whole thing

So let’s imagine that on Saturday night, the news had emerged not that Bowe Bergdahl was being freed but that he’d been murdered by his Taliban captors. What do you suppose we’d be hearing from Republican legislators? You know exactly what: Barack Obama is the weakest president ever, this is unconscionable. Which, of course, is exactly what we’re hearing from them now that the U.S. Army sergeant, held by the Taliban since 2009, has been freed. And it’s going to get worse. I’m even tempted to say forget Benghazi—Bergdahl may well end up being the flimsy excuse for the impeachment hearings they’ve been dreaming of before all this is over.

The Republicans’ audacity here is a bit beyond the usual. Let’s face it: There is no question that if President George W. Bush or a President McCain or President Romney had secured Bergdahl’s release in exchange for five Taliban prisoners at Gitmo, Republicans would be defending the move all the way. That business about notifying Congress? They’d have a dozen excuses for it. We got our prisoner of war home, they’d all be saying. That’s what matters.

But Obama does it, and Bergdahl’s freedom isn’t what matters at all. It’s that we negotiated with terrorists. Well, yes. We’ve been negotiating with the Taliban for a long time now, trying to end the war. See, they’re the people leading the fighting on the other side. When you’re trying to end a war, that’s generally who you negotiate with.

The five guys we returned to the Taliban are really bad guys, as Eli Lake and Josh Rogin wrote this weekend, and it’s fair to ask whether the price was too high. We can’t know the answer to that question today. But other criticisms are bogus. House intel chairman Mike Rogers said on TV Sunday that in cutting the deal, “you send a message to every al Qaeda group in the world that there is some value in a hostage that it didn’t have before.” That’s ridiculous. So al Qaeda groups didn’t know until this past weekend that taking an American hostage could give them leverage? Guerrilla forces have been taking people hostage since warfare began. We’ve even done lower-level prisoner trades in Afghanistan.

Looking forward, and looking more broadly at this situation, all the ingredients are here for a classic GOP Obama-conspiracy-mongering soap opera that can be dragged out until January 2017. The late combat journalist Mike Hastings wrote a long profile of Bergdahl in Rolling Stone in 2012, and it gets right to the heart of what may be the coming GOP case against him.

First of all, Bergdahl wasn’t any Republican’s idea of a patriot. Yes, he volunteered to join the Army, but only after he’d been turned down by the French Foreign Legion. Once on the ground in Afghanistan, he was a deeply disillusioned soldier. Shortly after his battalion took its first casualty, he emailed his parents a scathing indictment of the military and everything he saw around him. From Hastings:

“I am sorry for everything here,” Bowe told his parents. “These people need help, yet what they get is the most conceited country in the world telling them that they are nothing and that they are stupid, that they have no idea how to live.” He then referred to what his parents believe may have been a formative, possibly traumatic event: seeing an Afghan child run over by an MRAP. “We don’t even care when we hear each other talk about running their children down in the dirt streets with our armored trucks … We make fun of them in front of their faces, and laugh at them for not understanding we are insulting them.”

Bowe concluded his email with what, in another context, might read as a suicide note. “I am sorry for everything,” he wrote. “The horror that is america is disgusting.”

He wandered away from his unit. A Fox News commentator called him a “deserter.” He is officially in good standing in the Army and has even received the promotions due him during his time in captivity, but some consider him a deserter and traitor. Get ready to start hearing more of that.

The argument will be made that he wasn’t worth saving, especially given what we had to give up. Hastings cites “White House sources” as telling him that Marc Grossman, Richard Holbrooke’s successor as AfPak coordinator, “was given a direct warning by the president’s opponents in Congress about trading Bowe for five Taliban prisoners during an election year. ‘They keep telling me it’s going to be Obama’s Willie Horton moment,’ Grossman warned the White House.”

Can Republicans make this resonate outside their base? Hard to say. I think to most Americans, this is a feel-good story. We value a life, one American life. Bibi Netanyahu traded one captive Israeli soldier, Gilad Shalit, not for five Palestinian prisoners. He traded Shalit for 1,027 Palestinian prisoners. And there was broad agreement across the spectrum of Israeli politics that bringing Shalit to safety, even at that price, was the right thing to do.

But of course, that doesn’t matter to the right. No one outside their base cares much about Benghazi, but that hasn’t stopped them. They’ll keep pursuing Benghazi mostly to see if they can pin anything on Hillary, but when it comes to wet impeachment dreams, Benghazi may have just been pushed to the back seat. The crazy never stops.

[Commodore]

Surely if the guy is a deserter, he can now be prosecuted by US military authorities? Is that therefore not a good thing?

1) It's not a good thing to release five Taliban commanders in exchange for a deserter.

2) Dubious that he will ever be prosecuted after the administration gave him a hero's welcome.

The Obama Derangement Syndrome is off the charts.

The Obama turd-polishing, water-carrying syndrome is off the charts.

[Suttree]

Being told what to think? LOL Oh, the irony of the Racism! Benghazi! Teahadi! circle jerk club telling people they are being told what to think.

Guess I was correct. This has to be some sort of bizarre parody.

Have we truly reached the point where someone can just pull out the above after all the inane bullshit that has been tossed out by the right as if it's some sort "gotcha" moment? The best part about the "being told what to think" accusations is they come after the regurgitated false yell radio sound bites of "we've now negotiated with terrorists for the first time!!! Death an destruction are coming to our military personnel everywhere. Doooooom!!!" It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

[awesome possum]

The Obama turd-polishing, water-carrying syndrome is off the charts.

Once again you prove that you either cannot comprehend the words you read in this thread or you just don't care to. I don't care which, because your member title already says everything we need to know about you.

[MerenthaClone]

Merentha,

walking away from your unit while stationed in a Forward Operating Base (FOB) is desertion.

I agree that he should be brought home. He possibly has some mental issues that played a strong part in his desertion.

despite those mental issues, if it is proven that he gave useful information to the enemy that played a part in the death of American troops, he should be convicted of treason

everyone makes mistakes, and I can acknowledge that. He deserted his post, and if it ended there, he could face some UCMJ and we can all go about our business. But six soldiers died looking for him. Attacks on the FOBs increased after he deserted. Those things make his desertion a big deal.

And here I thought there was supposedly a huge "leave no man behind" ethos. Guess not. As for desertion, I'm looking at it this way. Say a man ends up in my house at night and I kill him and call the police. He's dead, yes. That part is true, as is the fact that I killed him. But whether I murdered him is different. He walked away from his post. Yes. Did he desert? I don't know yet.

I disagree with this guy being called a POW, which he was not.

Oh? Because the wikileaks docs coming from his captors say that he was captured. Or is this another "we're not at war" post? Or can he not be a POW because he allegedly deserted? Because, and I hope I'm not straining your mind too much here, even if he deserted, that doesn't mean he was trying to defect. That's an entirely different concept which nobody else has even alleged yet.

It's not a good thing to release five Taliban commanders in exchange for a deserter.

An alleged deserter who happens to be an American POW. Weren't you all "fuck yeah everything for American soldiers!!" a while ago? Also, they're not being immediately released. Thirdly, if the long-term goal is to drive a wedge between the Taliban and Al-Qaeda and you've already extracted all of the intelligence you're going to get, why don't you trade them? Oh, because they're big, scary "commanders?" I think they're going to have a hard time reintegrating themselves within the Taliban power structure given how long they've been gone and how long they were in US custody.

edit: AND, unless I'm incorrect, the Taliban we traded were all due for release relatively soon anyhow. Like, within the year.

[The Marquis de Leech]

1) It's not a good thing to release five Taliban commanders in exchange for a deserter.

2) Dubious that he will ever be prosecuted after the administration gave him a hero's welcome.

1. Aforementioned Taliban guys were being held in legal limbo in that abomination known as Guantanamo Bay, with all the associated issues that arise from that. Why not swap them for an American POW and kill two birds with one stone?

2. If he isn't prosecuted then there is a little thing called innocent until proven guilty. If there is evidence to mandate a prosecution, it is now possible to go ahead with one.

[Jon Sprunk]

I'm more than a little sickened that some people are actually arguing that this soldier--even if he is a deserter--didn't deserve to be saved. And now we quibbling over the price? (Would 4 enemy combatants have been a good enough deal?)

It's a very cruel and cynical perspective. War is ugly. Unending war is even uglier. Better get used to this sort of thing.