Why I think Aegon VI is legit.

[Fool of a Book]

I think that if the real Aegon, son of Rhaegar and Elia, a Targ Martell Rhoynish Dornish Valyrian, is still alive, that is freakin awesome.

I just wonder if Varys has the right one.

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

Let's ask another master schemer to explain to us this mind-boggling question, "why not tell the truth":

Littlefinger put a finger to her lips. “I know what I know, and so do you. Some things are best left unsaid, sweetling.”
“Even when we are alone?”
“Especially when we are alone. Elsewise a day will come when a servant walks into a room unannounced, or a guardsman at the door chances to hear something he should not.”

And Littlefinger's lie is trifle compared with Varys' long con.

You say there is no reason to lie to a dying man? There's absolutely no reason to confess the truth to him, either.

[Ruin]

JonCon is going to be pissed when he finds out that Aegon is really Faegon, a boy named Daemon by his parents, Varys & MoPhat from Pentos.

[Northernmonkey]

You say there is no reason to lie to a dying man? There's absolutely no reason to confess the truth to him, either.

But there's also no reason to explain anything to Kevan at all. Why not just kill him and get out of there? It's a bit strange for Varys to even bother doing the whole 'evil villain explaining his evil plan' thing if he's going to lie about it.

But as I said above, Varys likes to play games with people so I think it makes sense.

[Prince of the North]

My theory is that Varys' glowing speech about the virtues of fAegon (I think he's a Blackfyre and son of Illyrio and Sera) is not meant for Kevan at all. I think it was meant for a Little Bird(s) to take back to Illyrio to keep him thinking Varys is still on his side. I think it's misinformation. Why? I speculate Varys is getting ready to split with Illyrio and back Dany for the Iron Throne, not fAegon.

Just extremely flimsy speculation, I know, but it sure is fun ;)

[Northernmonkey]

My theory is that Varys' glowing speech about the virtues of fAegon (I think he's a Blackfyre and son of Illyrio and Sera) is not meant for Kevan at all. I think it was meant for a Little Bird(s) to take back to Illyrio to keep him thinking Varys is still on his side. I think it's misinformation. Why? I speculate Varys is getting ready to split with Illyrio and back Dany for the Iron Throne, not fAegon.

Just extremely flimsy speculation, I know, but it sure is fun ;)

That's interesting. I've been thinking for a while that Varys and Illyrio will turn on each other. They're both such slimy bastards - there's no way that they can actually trust each other.

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

But there's also no reason to explain anything to Kevan at all. Why not just kill him and get out of there? It's a bit strange for Varys to even bother doing the whole 'evil villain explaining his evil plan' thing if he's going to lie about it.

But as I said above, Varys likes to play games with people so I think it makes sense.

Exactly. The Spider loves his theatrics, that has been obvious since his first appearance on pages.

[Light a wight tonight]

Honestly, before the epilogue of ADWD, I was skeptical about Aegon VI being real or not. Seeing as if he was legit, he shouldn't have chosen to get involved so late.

But c'mon. I feel like any Aegon VI is fake theories automatically fall apart when you mention the fact that Varys told Kevan (moments before his death) that he was real. Why would he lie? Just a final f*** you to a Lannister? I don't think so. Varys even says that he admires Kevan (or something like that) and that he's sorry about killing him. He literally has no reason to lie to him?

Am I missing a detail here? Or does everyone just shrug this moment off and continue on thinking Aegon isn't real? I'm only bringing this up because before i made my account (super recently), I saw that the majority of people here seem to think Aegon is a fake or something.

Why would Varys say anything about Aegon at all? So Kevan can take the secret to his grave? Seems like a waste of breath/time to me.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

BTW, one of the "external" reasons for me to think Aegon is fake is my own user name: Jon Con. Jon is being "conned" =(

I'm more inclined to think there was someone besides the birds listening. He talks an awful lot about how ideal a king Aegon will be due to his training, and zero about how he's the true Targ heir. Which, for someone like Kevan, would be the better selling point, you'd think.

that could be true, but who, then? Wouldn't the little birds be in charge of no one else around?

And Littlefinger's lie is trifle compared with Varys' long con.

You say there is no reason to lie to a dying man? There's absolutely no reason to confess the truth to him, either.

But then he told his "plan" to a very well alive girl.

My theory is that Varys' glowing speech about the virtues of fAegon (I think he's a Blackfyre and son of Illyrio and Sera) is not meant for Kevan at all. I think it was meant for a Little Bird(s) to take back to Illyrio to keep him thinking Varys is still on his side. I think it's misinformation. Why? I speculate Varys is getting ready to split with Illyrio and back Dany for the Iron Throne, not fAegon.

I kinda like this one.

[butterbumps!]

BTW, one of the "external" reasons for me to think Aegon is fake is my own user name: Jon Con. Jon is being "conned" =(

that could be true, but who, then? Wouldn't the little birds be in charge of no one else around?

Well, the HS is someone who'd be keen on the "of the people" description Varys waxes poetic about. The opening part of the speech could be a warning of sorts to a Tyrell party. And there's still Qyburn. It could be someone else entirely. ETA: I nearly forgot. I wonder if he has something planned for Tyrek.

My theory is that Varys' glowing speech about the virtues of fAegon (I think he's a Blackfyre and son of Illyrio and Sera) is not meant for Kevan at all. I think it was meant for a Little Bird(s) to take back to Illyrio to keep him thinking Varys is still on his side. I think it's misinformation. Why? I speculate Varys is getting ready to split with Illyrio and back Dany for the Iron Throne, not fAegon.

Just extremely flimsy speculation, I know, but it sure is fun ;)

I've proposed something similar-- that the birds answer to both Varys and Illyrio, and such, Varys has to keep Illyrio thinking Varys' plan is exactly the same as his (good spies spy on each other).

But this still wouldn't satisfy why Varys needs to deliver a speech about what a great Enlightened Despot Aegon's been raised as. Presumably, simply killing Pycelle and Kevan would satisfy Illyrio, if this is the issue. And Illyrio knows exactly how he's been raised all this time. It kind of looks like Varys' speech is intended for another audience, one that's remained off camera in that scene.

[Amber W]

My theory is that Varys' glowing speech about the virtues of fAegon (I think he's a Blackfyre and son of Illyrio and Sera) is not meant for Kevan at all. I think it was meant for a Little Bird(s) to take back to Illyrio to keep him thinking Varys is still on his side. I think it's misinformation. Why? I speculate Varys is getting ready to split with Illyrio and back Dany for the Iron Throne, not fAegon.

Just extremely flimsy speculation, I know, but it sure is fun ;)

I actually really like this - never considered it before, but it sounds entirely plausible.

[Drogon'sWrath]

My theory is that Varys' glowing speech about the virtues of fAegon (I think he's a Blackfyre and son of Illyrio and Sera) is not meant for Kevan at all. I think it was meant for a Little Bird(s) to take back to Illyrio to keep him thinking Varys is still on his side. I think it's misinformation. Why? I speculate Varys is getting ready to split with Illyrio and back Dany for the Iron Throne, not fAegon.

Just extremely flimsy speculation, I know, but it sure is fun ;)

I wouldn't be at all surprised if Varys turns on Illyrio or Illyrio turns on Varys. Hell, I can see both happening. Varys tells Ned in the dungeon that he gives everyone just enough information to think he's on their side, mentioning Cersei and LF by name. I can very well see him employing that same strategy with Illyrio; give him just enough to let him believe they're working together. And early in GOT, Illyrio is described as a man who has no friends he wouldn't sell for the right price. Varys speech likely wasn't meant for just Kevan and that you are right in speculating it's for the little birds. As to what he really plans on doing I can't say, but I've been sold on the idea that he and Illyrio will turn on each other for quite some time.

[Theon {HUNGRY WOLF} Stark]

Well, the HS is someone who'd be keen on the "of the people" description Varys waxes poetic about. The opening part of the speech could be a warning of sorts to a Tyrell party. And there's still Qyburn. It could be someone else entirely. ETA: I nearly forgot. I wonder if he has something planned for Tyrek.

I've proposed something similar-- that the birds answer to both Varys and Illyrio, and such, Varys has to keep Illyrio thinking Varys' plan is exactly the same as his (good spies spy on each other).

But this still wouldn't satisfy why Varys needs to deliver a speech about what a great Enlightened Despot Aegon's been raised as. Presumably, simply killing Pycelle and Kevan would satisfy Illyrio, if this is the issue. And Illyrio knows exactly how he's been raised all this time. It kind of looks like Varys' speech is intended for another audience, one that's remained off camera in that scene.

But who would be that secret audience? In his monologue Varys tells about Tyrells & Lannisters being at each other's throats and someone blaming Dorne for those murders. So that rules out those three players. Mayhaps someone from littlefinger camp? I mean littlefinger has to know the goings on in KL, otherwise how will he modify his plans if needed?

[oursisthefury69]

Ahh another " I think Varys is above lying thread"

[butterbumps!]

But who would be that secret audience? In his monologue Varys tells about Tyrells & Lannisters being at each other's throats and someone blaming Dorne for those murders. So that rules out those three players. Mayhaps someone from littlefinger camp? I mean littlefinger has to know the goings on in KL, otherwise how will he modify his plans if needed?

It doesn't rule out those players. It would ostensibly send a message: no one is going to believe the truth about this, since all of you will assume it's another party/ be blamed for this and be pitted against each other even more so. You have no ally but Aegon, so come to the winning side.

And I tossed out 3 other possibilities: the High Septon or a related party, Qyburn, or even Tyrek, if you want to get into chekov's gun territory.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Let's ask another master schemer to explain to us this mind-boggling question, "why not tell the truth":

And Littlefinger's lie is trifle compared with Varys' long con.

You say there is no reason to lie to a dying man? There's absolutely no reason to confess the truth to him, either.

This sums it up best, including the Littlefinger quote.

Varys has no reason to say anything to Kevan. And a lot of people think Varys said something that he didn't, namely, he never says that Aegon is the Aegon. Hell, he pulled the same exact thing before, telling Ned about "the boy" who owed Arryn everything. Varys meant Baelish but Ned thought he meant Hugh. Varys knew Ned thought he meant Hugh, but did he clarify? No. He wasn't lying then, either. Same sort of thing.

[The Dragons Hand]

Varys mentions Aegon. There have been many Aegon's and even if Young Griff is a Blackfyre he could still be called Aegon. He never mentions a surname

The little birds where there and even if they are mute they must know how to write. Not worth the risk.

[James Arryn]

The Illyrio through little birds theory also falls apart for me.

If Illyrio is distrusting a relationship decades old, he's not going to be mollified because Varys makes a speech to his little birds. In fact, he knows Varys better than we do, so I think we're well beyond a 'oh the little birds say he's very enthusiastic about the plan, so that's a relief' stage.

As for the other idea, the unpredictable elements like Cleganes/head smashing, I have ventured many times that we mistakenly look at the plan in retrospect, assuming it came into being fully formed. But that's unlikely.

It may very well have been a desperate attempt to just buy Varys enough time to get Aegon out of the city, or similar. Once the Mountain does what he does, the plans changed as they had greater scope. Varys always seems to be an organic planner; not sure why we assume the first one was set in stone before the event.

[cade]

1. He doesn't technically tell Kevan that the Aegon invading Westeros is Rhaegar's son.

2. Any Aegon VI is real theories automatically fall apart when you mention the fact that the entire notion that he's Rhaegar's son comes from an account by Varys. Varys, ffs. The guy who pretended to be Rugen for like 15 years, who makes his living playing with people's beliefs, and very openly stated that power is about belief and illusion.

Yeah, I think the most shocking phenomenon I've encountered in this fandom is the way so many exalt Varys -- Varys! -- as a paragon of honesty.

[James Arryn]

This sums it up best, including the Littlefinger quote.

Varys has no reason to say anything to Kevan. And a lot of people think Varys said something that he didn't, namely, he never says that Aegon is the Aegon. Hell, he pulled the same exact thing before, telling Ned about "the boy" who owed Arryn everything. Varys meant Baelish but Ned thought he meant Hugh. Varys knew Ned thought he meant Hugh, but did he clarify? No. He wasn't lying then, either. Same sort of thing.

In that case Varys was attempting to deceive a character in the books, and we went along for the ride by design.

But statements whose entire intent is merely to mislead the readers would IMO be cheap writing. Not saying it couldn't happen, but I'd be disappointed if it did.