PrettyPig Posted June 13, 2014 Author Share Posted June 13, 2014 It's not the "shadow" part that intrigues me, really....it's the "axe hanging over Robert's head" part. What was the axe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danelle Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 There is also the possibility that it might have been arranged beforehand. True but given how close Steffon was to his cousin Aerys, I wouldn't be surprised if Steffon had planned for Robert to be Rhaegar's squire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sleeper Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 True but given how close Steffon was to his cousin Aerys, I wouldn't be surprised if Steffon had planned for Robert to be Rhaegar's squire. I was just throwing that as an option. Good idea though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Woodland Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 It's not the "shadow" part that intrigues me, really....it's the "axe hanging over Robert's head" part. What was the axe? Absolutely grasping at straws here but what this hints at could actually could go some way to understanding Rhaegar's inexplicable hatred of Rhaegar, & why he was so quick to believe he kidnapped & raped her while everyone else thought Rhaegar was a pretty decent guy. Robert was a brawler & hot headed, what if he challenged Rhaegar in a fit of temper but they were both too young to be taken seriously, I can only recall Maester Creswell's memories of Stannis though. Robert as a youngster is a mystery If something like this did happen between Robert & Rhaegar that got him shipped off to the Vale to separate them physically, just enough bad blood to fuel a fued long before Lyanna was even thought of? It would actually explain quite a lot. So as long as he stays there with Ned for company & behaves himself it's all good . However that fued is still simmering, then Lyanna & the Starks get factored into the mix even deeper & Lyanna suddenly disappears, this stirs up the Starks & they demand justice, get themselves killed, this might also explain why Aerys summoned Ned & Robert to KL but didn't bargain on Jon Arryn switching sides on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Seed Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 "Only the shadow of a shadow, twenty years removed"Why does this have to have a hidden meaning or clue? Daeny is just a shadow (lesser) of the Mad King and he's been gone for 20 years. I know, the Rebellion was 17 or 18 years ago not 20 but perhaps it's just generalization of the time. Kinda like rounding off the number. Like we do all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Seed Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 It's not the "shadow" part that intrigues me, really....it's the "axe hanging over Robert's head" part. What was the axe? I think Ned is referring The mad King wanting his head when he was in the Vale and its what forced RR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winterfell is Burning Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 I was thinking today regarding another topic how annoying it is that we don't have the proper backstory, we know Robert's parent's both drowned apparently after a fruitless voyage trying to source a bride for Rhaegar, then inexplicably Robert goes to the Vale to be fostered with Jon Arryn, who arranged that I wonder?. Robert was already being fostered at the Vale long before his parents died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 "Only the shadow of a shadow, twenty years removed" Why does this have to have a hidden meaning or clue? Daeny is just a shadow (lesser) of the Mad King and he's been gone for 20 years. I know, the Rebellion was 17 or 18 years ago not 20 but perhaps it's just generalization of the time. Kinda like rounding off the number. Like we do all the time. The Mad king has only been gone for 15 years in AGoT. Harrenhal was only 2 years before that. Either Ned's memory is faulty (unreliable narrator strikes again!) or something happened in Robert's past where he was in danger from the crown years before the Rhaegar/Lyanna issue popped up. It's not the "shadow" part that intrigues me, really....it's the "axe hanging over Robert's head" part. What was the axe? That's what I got from your OP. I'm thinking that's another part of the history that we haven't been told yet. Or maybe Robert has a touch of the Targ paranoia Cousin Aerys is famous for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrettyPig Posted June 13, 2014 Author Share Posted June 13, 2014 The Mad king has only been gone for 15 years in AGoT. Harrenhal was only 2 years before that. Either Ned's memory is faulty (unreliable narrator strikes again!) or something happened in Robert's past where he was in danger from the crown years before the Rhaegar/Lyanna issue popped up. That was my mental dilemna as well - is it a "Jeyne's hips" thing or something significant? The 'subtle' portion of the 3-phase reveal strategy? To further stir the pot and make something out of nothing, here is another excerpt from AGOT where Cersei and Jaime are arguing about Ned's Hand position right before Bran catches them in flagrante delicto: "You are as blind as Robert, " the woman was saying. "If you mean I see the same thing, yes, " the man said. "I see a man who would sooner die than betray his king." "He betrayed one already, or have you forgotten?" the woman said. What does this mean? Obviously this refers to Aerys - is Cersei really referring to Ned's joining the rebellion after the brutal murder of his father and brother as a "betrayal" of his king? Clearly this betrayal has something to do with both Ned and Robert, but why would a Lannister use that turn of phrase in reference to RR? Just struck me as odd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oba Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 (this is my first post >_<)I don't think it refers to the past. I think it means that Eddard thinks it will be at least 20 years before Daenerys or her brother are a realistic threat. I agree with you. I don’t think Ned is being specific with respect to his 20 years’ comment. Nor do I think Ned’s using “20 years removed” instead of “20 years from now” is really that big of a deal or a clue into some deeper mystery. I thought it was an interesting turn of phrase, but nothing more. Particularly as Robert isn’t shy about stating his specific reasons (from his point of view) for his hatred of the Targaryens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bent branch Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 I agree with those who say the shadow is in the future. Ned is trying to say that to kill Dany and her baby now before either is truly any threat is murder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luddagain Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 It is one of the many time line problems in the books but Robert must have been at the Eyrie well before his parent's death. Like ALL noble boys he would have been fostered to a great Lord sometime between the ages 7-10, serving as a page then a squire. Sometimes they may go to one Lord/Lady while young as a page then to another as a squire. Now as the heir to Stormlands, suitable foster parents would be other great Lords/ladies. Jon Arryn was known to be wise and caring, with military skill and had no sons so he is an ideal foster father for Robert. Perhaps Steffan knew his son and chose Jon Arryn BECAUSE he had no daughters. However of the Lords of the day who would YOU chose. Not Tywin (too dangerous), nor Mace Tyrell (too foolish). The Dornish, Iron Islands and the North were fairly culturally different (no knights in the North) so there was less choice ie Hoster Tully or Jon Arryn. Now for the second and third sons fostering might well be with one of your own bannermen, but I guess it would depend on the kid. Think of poor Sam. He was going to be fostered with the family of Hobber and Slobber (one of the twins would go with Randall Tarly), but Sam was too weak and was not ACCEPTED as a page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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