Should films like The Interview be sanctioned? And now the Sony Hack

[Castel]

I didn't really find the trailer very amusing. I generally like Seth Rogen/James Franco stuff, and I thought This Is The End was hilarious.

However, I still can't help but chuckle at their balls. It's amusing to me that they deliberately mock one of the countries in the world with the least sense of humour. And of course, it's one way to condemn a twisted dictatorship for what it is.

Of course, it would be substantially less amusing if North Korea had reacted with anything but, as the article says, ''their usual bluster''.

Oh, yeah. What balls. Making fun of a distant country that they will never in a million years visit. You're speaking as if the dark arm of North Korea is going to reach across the map and crush them for their insolence. It's not as if North Korea isn't an internet meme at this point.

Although I suppose it takes some confidence in one's abilities to make a film about this without fucking it up.

Would it be funny if the Chinese made a movie about a couple of trade emissaries being asked to assassinate Obama?

Maitha has summarized it but there is a significant difference. If the Chinese made such a movie the US (as a people) take it badly. The certainly wouldn't call for the bombing of China as a way to force them to censor the film. There's a difference between getting pissed at the film-makers and dragging the government into things.

But honestly? If this were to happen? Who cares?

[Fragile Bird]

Because of the unequal strength on many fronts between North Korea and the USA, I chose China in my example, though it's not a good one, I admit. It's hard to imagine what country could make a film about assassinating the president of the USA that Americans wouldn't sneer at. Really, you'd have to go back to the height of the cold war between Russia and the USA to get a good comparison. Cuba with Russian nuclear missiles aimed at the USA (no missile crisis having happened to prevent the delivery of the missiles) might be comparable.

I think Canadians, who are good friends of Americans, would not be deliriously happy with a Seth Rogen film about interviewers coming to Canada and being asked by the CIA to assassinate our Prime Minister. A comedy, but not in very good taste.

[Clueless Northman]

By your logic, Fritz Lang's "Man Hunt" should've been banned - since after all USA weren't at war with Germany at the time of its release.

[Fragile Bird]

By your logic, Fritz Lang's "Man Hunt" should've been banned - since after all USA weren't at war with Germany at the time of its release.

I have no idea what you are trying to say here. The character in Man Hunt did not take instructions from the British Secret Service in the film.

[Castel]

I'm merely noting that, while most Western anythings might be derogatory towards North Korea, it's something of a step beyond to make a film that does nothing but take the piss out of them for 90 mins (I'm assuming that North Korea mocking is going to be the meat of this film). In some ways it's similar to South Park depicting Mohammed - ignoring the quantitative difference between North Korea's goverment and Muslim's here there and everywhere.

Oh, sure. If we ignore all the meaningful differences then it's absolutely the same.

Perhaps balls was a poor choice of word, and if so I'm sorry offended you with it

:mellow:

Apology accepted.

I do think it takes a certain commitment to make a film that deliberately goes out of it's way to damage relationships with a volatile nation like North Korea, as well as already shaky relations with China.

I think you and I have a fundamental disagreement there. I simply have no faith in the Hollywood's (or Seth Rogan or James Franco's) sense of responsibility when it comes to a country that most people consider absurd and (mostly) non-threatening. I don't think that they-or what they perceive as their demographic- are overly concerned with damaging relations -probably because NK has always been in the news complaining about something.

I think Canadians, who are good friends of Americans, would not be deliriously happy with a Seth Rogen film about interviewers coming to Canada and being asked by the CIA to assassinate our Prime Minister. A comedy, but not in very good taste.

Of course. Part of the problem with discussing censorship is that it gives an easy answer. Would I understand why some people would dislike such a film, especially since it comes from the Americans, even if they didn't try to ban it? Sure.

But on the other hand: it's North Korea. Not only is there no solution, it's difficult to get worked up about one group of millionaires safe in the heart of a superpower making fun of a brutal, repressive dictatorship y'know? A regime that has made ludicrous claims and threats on top of the shit they do internally.

It's a bit like trying to support Donald Sterling or Luis Suarez by comparing them to other, less problematic people.

Do you really feel as if this movie could be made about Canada? I don't. So it's difficult for me to compare it to anything else and make a general statement because it seems like a pretty specific thing. I suppose the film could be made about say...a demonized African government and I would be upset but it's still difficult to visualize. It's difficult to imagine that they would actually single out an actual public figure if they weren't like Kim Jong Un.

[Fragile Bird]

As I said in the OP, Castel, I could not figure out the appropriate word to use in the title of this thread. Absolutely no doubt freedom of speech is a keystone of Western democracy. I just happen to think the leaders of North Korea are bat shit crazy. I think it will take all the fun out of the film if the North Koreans decide, say, to shoot down a US commercial jet because it got too close to North Korean airspace. North Korea hates the USA. That's why I used the example of Canadians being offended if they made a comedy about assassinating the Canadian PM. The guys could have made the exact same film and changed the name of the country, for example, they didn't have to go out of their way to be so direct.

[E-Ro]

The funny thing here is what in the fuck are the north koreans going to do over it? Other then run their mouths some more? Are they going to stop accepting food aid in protest? China, and the western world by extension has the dprk by the balls. They know better then to do anything, they would only be screwing themselves over.

Anyway the movie looks great, ill be watching it. Perhaps multiple times. Might even buy the dvd.

[williamjm]

Oh, yeah. What balls. Making fun of a distant country that they will never in a million years visit. You're speaking as if the dark arm of North Korea is going to reach across the map and crush them for their insolence. It's not as if North Korea isn't an internet meme at this point.

I'm sure we all remember the dire consequences of American film-makers mocking the North Korean leader mercilessly and then fictionally killing him off in Team America...

I don't think that they-or what they perceive as their demographic- are overly concerned with damaging relations -probably because NK has always been in the news complaining about something.

I think they should be fine as long as they don't mock his hair, things will get really serious if that happens.

[Mark Antony]

im soooo roneryyyy

[E-Ro]

im soooo roneryyyy

lmao.

[Castel]

As I said in the OP, Castel, I could not figure out the appropriate word to use in the title of this thread. Absolutely no doubt freedom of speech is a keystone of Western democracy. I just happen to think the leaders of North Korea are bat shit crazy. I think it will take all the fun out of the film if the North Koreans decide, say, to shoot down a US commercial jet because it got too close to North Korean airspace. North Korea hates the USA.

Maybe it's just me but I find this inconceivable.

I think this sort of fear is also part of the meme (Iran has it to some degree as well and it's probably more useful politically there too) the insane Other that can and will do anything (no matter how politically insane) if they're inconvenienced in any way.

That's why I used the example of Canadians being offended if they made a comedy about assassinating the Canadian PM. The guys could have made the exact same film and changed the name of the country, for example, they didn't have to go out of their way to be so direct.

I don't understand what these two statements have to do with one another. After all, the real country is being used in the first sentence.

Also: Of course they could. But would NK not have known?

EDIT: Also, this discussion is mixing up two issues: the US being disrespectful towards other cultures and nations and the US provoking an insane country. Your comparison to Canada touches on the former but now it makes me seem as if you're really concerned about the latter. Can I assume that this is because you believe, like me, that this is a special situation?

[Queen Ayras Lord Commander]

NK is just butthurt because they know that eventually some of their citizens will find it and freak out. They are ridiculous and deserved to be mocked.

[Fragile Bird]

Castel, I honestly think that the NK leadership is far, far beyond Iran in terms of being out to lunch. You could at least rationalize things Iran did by looking at their history and their religion and put their actions in context. If the USA to Iran is like Earth to Mars, the USA (and pretty well every other country out there) to NK is like Earth to Neptune, way, way out there.

I don't care about any American filmmaker being rude to foreign countries, they've been doing that for a century, just as other countries making films in their markets have been rude to other countries as well. I'm concerned about going out of your way to wave a red flag in front of crazy people. I just went back and re-read my OP, I don't say a thing about the US being disrespectful to other countries. My question is about one specific film and my question is, is it just stupid to make it?

Let me see if I can explain the Canada thing again. If you think that people living in a country that is probably the closest ally and friend the US has on earth (and if you disagree with that, go open a thread about it, it's just my opinion) would look askance at a comedy made about the CIA suggesting their leader be assassinated, how do you think a country that hates the US would feel about it? I don't seriously think anyone would ever make a film, comedy or not, about the CIA suggesting the PM be assassinated, that would be way too boring a film. A comedy about invading Canada, sure, that's always good for a laugh.

As for North Koreans shooting down commercial jets, since the Russians did that to Korean Airlines Flight 007 back in 1983, I would not rule it out as a possibility.

[balefired-ed]

Let me see if I can explain the Canada thing again. If you think that people living in a country that is probably the closest ally and friend the US has on earth (and if you disagree with that, go open a thread about it, it's just my opinion) would look askance at a comedy made about the CIA suggesting their leader be assassinated, how do you think a country that hates the US would feel about it? I don't seriously think anyone would ever make a film, comedy or not, about the CIA suggesting the PM be assassinated, that would be way too boring a film. A comedy about invading Canada, sure, that's always good for a laugh.

I'm pretty sure that's the plot of South Park: Bigger, Longer, and Uncut.

[sj4iy]

OP: Nope, nada, absolutely not.

Freedom of speech is freedom of speech. NK will do exactly what they did before when movies came out that 'insulted' their dear leader: nothing.

[Castel]

Let me see if I can explain the Canada thing again. If you think that people living in a country that is probably the closest ally and friend the US has on earth (and if you disagree with that, go open a thread about it, it's just my opinion) would look askance at a comedy made about the CIA suggesting their leader be assassinated, how do you think a country that hates the US would feel about it? I don't seriously think anyone would ever make a film, comedy or not, about the CIA suggesting the PM be assassinated, that would be way too boring a film. A comedy about invading Canada, sure, that's always good for a laugh.

Ah. I see what you're saying. Thanks for explaining.

Castel, I honestly think that the NK leadership is far, far beyond Iran in terms of being out to lunch. You could at least rationalize things Iran did by looking at their history and their religion and put their actions in context. If the USA to Iran is like Earth to Mars, the USA (and pretty well every other country out there) to NK is like Earth to Neptune, way, way out there.

But I think the problem is overstated in both cases. NK may go out of their way to prove that they are insane, but unfortunately all organisms have some sort of self-preservation instinct.

One might divide their insanity into two categories: the crazy shit they tell their citizens (and the rest of the world I suppose) and the crazy shit they actually do that will come back and haunt them. I think the first category weighs heavily on the mind.

As for North Koreans shooting down commercial jets, since the Russians did that to Korean Airlines Flight 007 back in 1983, I would not rule it out as a possibility.

It cannot be ruled out as a possibility. However, I don't feel as if that is the standard with which we make the majority of our decisions, unless they involve extinction events (honestly, even then). The question is how likely it is. Looking it up the two situations seem pretty different. Mostly because one involves North Korea.

I can't think of a case like this involving them in recent history.Can you? Because that would solve this much faster.

[WTFSalami]

Nothing should be censored.

All that would do so should meet swift resistance.

[WTFSalami]

.

[Ziggy Targdust]

I bet it will be a cult classic amongst the cool teens of NK.

A billion cool points if you see the movie because you get your head chopped off if you are caught watching it.

[Sir Thursday]

I'm torn on this. Ignoring the political angle for a second, one of the things that makes this interesting is that the film is portraying a plot to kill a real life individual without that individual's consent. Consider, if you will, a similar film in which the target of the assassination attempt was instead a famous sportsman or singer, and that film was made and distributed without the prior consent of the target. Would that be OK? Does the target have a right to object to being used in the plot of a film like that?

ST