GRRM should have made Valyrians black

[Gneisenau]

yeah and I have concerns about them casting Areo "Serve, Obey, Protect" Hotah as black. They already had the Mhysa controversy and I feel like this is an invitation for another.

The Mhysa controversy only existed because the producers wanted to portrayed Dany as a savior/hero.

[Brian Boru Brightflame]

no

[LordStoneheart]

The Mhysa controversy only existed because the producers wanted to portrayed Dany as a savior/hero.

Apparently so did Martin.

I guess it won't be as bad as I think if his "simple vows for a simple man" motto doesn't make it in. Character mantra's rarely do.

[Crowford]

We'd better check our privilege.

There. Was that really necessary? Yes, the privilege-checking-crowd is supremely annoying and completely ineffectual at combating discrimination.

But can we also please stop feeling preemptively victimized by the so called "political correctness GONE MAD"? I think no one in this thread has at any point suggested that it was wrong to write white characters (it isn't). And no one has tried to have anyone check privileges (thankfully).

Especially since we are all in the privileged (*cough*) position of being able to use any user pic and name we choose, meaning all our "privileges" would be shrouded in mystery anyway.

[Trigger Warning]

There. Was that really necessary? Yes, the privilege-checking-crowd is supremely annoying and completely ineffectual at combating discrimination.

But can we also please stop feeling preemptively victimized by the so called "political correctness GONE MAD"? I think no one in this thread has at any point suggested that it was wrong to write white characters (it isn't). And no one has tried to have anyone check privileges (thankfully).

Especially since we are all in the privileged (*cough*) position of being able to use any user pic and name we choose, meaning all our "privileges" would be shrouded in mystery anyway.

No jokes allowed.

[HouseHarrison]

Wouldn't have worked. Books would have taken too much hate for having black people renowned as brutal genocidal slavers.

Plus Valyrians are they are now looks far less abnormal then simply being black, which is pretty standard/common/nothing out of the ordinary. If I saw someone with silver hair, pale skin, and purple eyes I'd give him a second look, not true for a black person.

Also Valyria was largely a Roman Empire analogue so there was little reason to do it.

Quotas/"diversity" aren't detrimental to fiction, but neither are they necessary. The show is becoming bogged down in the desire to meet racial quotas but GRRM shows little interest it. It's only really troublesome with the show because they tend to reduce characters down to stereotypes to show how "progressive" they are for having a minority there (aka TV Loras is never-ending homosexual references) and pushing nonsensical/stupid plots with black actors like Missandei-Grey Worm romance. And mark my words there will be "controversy" regarding Hotah now that hes been cast as black. Reaction to The Exposition That Rides is not going to end well black.

[Ser Arthur Hightower]

I always saw the valyrians as being a play on the elven/magical master race trope, they have the beauty and eerie features and believe themselves superior, but in reality they are a bunch of nutters born of incest that are just as susceptible to disease, fire, and warhammers as everyone else.

[Pod The Impaler]

I recently read that GRRM wanted to show that the Valyrians were "different" from other humans in ASOIAF, so he gave them the traditional elvish qualities of silver hair, purple eyes & delicate features. However, in that same interview he also stated that it occurred to him "20 yrs too late" that he could have made the Valyrians black instead. I personally think the latter choice would have been MUCH cooler; it would really be breaking the fantasy & RL mold to make a race of sorcerers & conquerors black. It would have been even more interesting if instead of making them look like sub-Saharan Africans GRRM gave the Valyrians black (really black, not just brown) skin & European features. That would have been cool.

GRRM could just as easily have made them Chinese, or Incan. :dunno:

[Snow Dottir]

I agree. Also, wouldn't Martin making Valyrians have "black (really black, not just brown) skin & European features" just open Martin up to criticism that he ripped off the Drow from Dungeons & Dragons?

Yeah this was taking me back to 1991 and Menzoberanzan.

[Snow Dottir]

Yeah, I think this is the real reason. World of the mid-90s wouldn't have dreamed of it and there's no way to hide Jon. We already have blinking Unsullied on the vids saying "but wait a minute -- he can't be Targ, all Targs have silver hair/purple eyes..."

Seriously?

The mid 90's were not that long ago...

I don't know maybe I'm misremembering the 90's but I don't think it would have been that controversial.

I do however like the Targs just how they are and I agree with the other posters that the description given would have looked like the Drow...

[LordStoneheart]

I think no one in this thread has at any point suggested that it was wrong to write white characters (it isn't).

While I don't think any real harm was meant or done, and it can definitely lead to some funny discussion like BeyonCersei, this was basically the premise of this thread. Suggesting that Valyrians as white was either the wrong decision or an opportunity wasted. But that's kind of useless discussion because it could be said about any character. "What if X character was X race instead?"

[Arlan of Pennytree]

I guess the world wasn't ready... Also if Daenerys were black would the series have been as successful? Not to sound racist but come on, The Wire was a fantastic show but never hit big while it was airing because it was a "black" show.

I think it would depend on how hot she was. INHO, there's plenty of black women out there that are sexier than Emilia Clarke.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

GRRM could just as easily have made them Chinese, or Incan. :dunno:

Well, except for the fact that China and the Incan empire are part of this world, not Planetos. Hey, maybe Gerion Lannister will take on a Marco Polo kind of role!

Actually I'd be interested in a badass oriental-ish race in a story. I like to read historical fiction and I have to say that while I do enjoy all of the european-based stories, I could stand some more variety. I'm not alone in that sentiment either.

[Bennis of the Brown Shield]

Well, except for the fact that China and the Incan empire are part of this world, not Planetos. Hey, maybe Gerion Lannister will take on a Marco Polo kind of role!

Actually I'd be interested in a badass oriental-ish race in a story. I like to read historical fiction and I have to say that while I do enjoy all of the european-based stories, I could stand some more variety. I'm not alone in that sentiment either.

The Dothraki sort of fit the bill. The Dornishmen too, again sort of since I guess they aren't fully "oriental" so to say.

Both of these peoples also have more important roles in the story than the Valyrians, since most of those are long dead.

[ejhawman]

Hmmm.

Traditionally, if he still wanted an elvish race, only black, or a "really black, not just brown skinned", that would be drow (dark elves). Which makes a sort of sense, as it has a history in fantasy works.

A toned down, African(-American) set would look like Erudites from Everquest.

Either way, HBO wouldn't go for it. They would be too open to charges of racism.

[Hattori]

the best thing he did was not have black people on his world, besides the Summer Islands. He already gets flack for that, imagine if he had a part of westeros or essos that were black people.Alot of bigots would find a way to call him racist on any misunderstanding they would find. Unfortunately thats the world we live in, and im happy George Martin made a world based on europe and asia and pretty much not touch upon african culture

[The Kinkslayer]

Eddie Murphy as Viserys, just kidding... :)

Willow Smith as Daenerys

Say what you will about Emilia Clarke, but Willow Smith does not have enough talent to be a reality show contestant

[DavosSeaworthy]

Eddie Murphy as BlackViserys, BlackDany and BlackAegon.

Adam Sandler plays Jaime and Cersei and Tyrion.

Perfect. Oh and Nicolas Cage as Joffrey.

Congrats on creating the most unwatchable show ever!

[The Marquis de Leech]

OK, let's suppose he had made them black.

You have a black family ruling over an overwhelmingly white realm, with aforementioned black family engaging in incest to keep themselves special. You have Robert's Rebellion, where a bunch of white guys* defeat a black tyrant. Aforementioned black tyrant rapes his wife, burns (white) people alive, and plots to blow up the (overwhelmingly white) capital city.

If you can't see how this would lead to Martin being accused of KKK membership, I'm not sure what more anyone can do for you. And that's even before we consider the Targaryen association with magic and dragons. Do we have magical negroes on top of a race war?

*Though I suppose Robert would be at least slightly tan, or to use the terminology of the bad old days, a Quadroon.

[Super Daario]

If the Valyrians were black, then that would make R+L=J and A+J=T pretty obvious...