Trigger Warning Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 Agreed As a Black man I have to say this a terrible idea. It's a case of screwed if you do and screwed if you don't. GRRM doesn't include enough blacks in the series and he's a secret racist. GRRM makes ruthless black elites that enslave the rest of the world with the dragons and he's a racist. When dealing with slavery it's safe to make both the slaves and the people enslaving the same race. I think Joe Abercrombie did this in his first law series where both the slaves and enslavers were black. If GRRM did make the Valyrians black it probably wouldn't have been a huge deal when the books came out. Now though, ugh. He would have to do a Don Imus type apology tour where he kisses the feet of Al Sharpton and his ilk for depicting blacks a ruthless savages who going around enslaving and dominating whites in the pursuit of power. Just as side note. A few of my family members/black friends have read this series/watched the show and none of them have ever mentioned race except one and just a Cersie think's she see's Tyrion plotting against her at all times, he thinks the white man is plotting against him always. It's only my liberal, white-guilt, SJW type friends that seem to bring up race when discussing this series. Pretty much this, none of my black friends have ever even questioned it. But I know two white girls who howl about it whenever the books or show are brought up and no one pays them any mind because they're always trying to find some victimisation or discrimination in absolutely everything anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRANDON GREYSTARK Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 GRRM wants to make money even though we like to think of our society as color-blind we like to see our protagonist in people like those we are comfortable with. And if it had made it to H.B.O the producers request the same changes because they also want to make money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingJonStark Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Never understood why some people think the lack of blacks in Westeros is somehow racist or unlikely. How many blacks were in Europe during the Middle Ages? Sure, there were some Muslims in Mediterranean Europe, but not so much in the central or northern sectors. As for why Valyrians should be black based on where they came from: how do we know the peninsula was hot? Depending on weather patterns, it may have been a cool or cloudy place. Maybe volcanic ash from the Fourteen Fires blocked sunlight? Just a guess. Also, for all we know, all the people from Ulthos and Sothoryos may be black and only people from the northern continents are generally white. There is much and more in this world that the people of Westeros do not yet know about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthernXY Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 I've always wondered about the races in areas. Rhoynar are olive skinned and lived near the SE part of Essos while to the eat are the Valyrians whoare fair skinned and show physical characteristic with only the Daynes. Andals came from the Axe and displaced a people similar to the Ibbenese, who are very hairy and I always assumed somewhat fair skinned. North central are the Dothraki, a mongol like people, but Qarth, an old city is home to fair skinned people. I have no clue about the Asshai, Melisandre is from there, but she was sold to the Red Temple so I don't know if she is the type of race that lives there, or was just a slave that ended up there. Things like this always make me scratch my head. Don't have any ideas about the First Men because they would have had passed through the arm of Dorne, a region close to Rhoynar, who don't resemble them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game Of Thrones Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 I've always wondered about the races in areas. Rhoynar are olive skinned and lived near the SE part of Essos while to the eat are the Valyrians whoare fair skinned and show physical characteristic with only the Daynes. Andals came from the Axe and displaced a people similar to the Ibbenese, who are very hairy and I always assumed somewhat fair skinned. North central are the Dothraki, a mongol like people, but Qarth, an old city is home to fair skinned people. I have no clue about the Asshai, Melisandre is from there, but she was sold to the Red Temple so I don't know if she is the type of race that lives there, or was just a slave that ended up there. Things like this always make me scratch my head. Don't have any ideas about the First Men because they would have had passed through the arm of Dorne, a region close to Rhoynar, who don't resemble them. GRRM Genetics make no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singer's stew Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 GRRM Genetics make no sense. Stupidity of black racists has no bounds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game Of Thrones Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Stupidity of black racist has no bounds Excuse me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+cassius Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 nah he did valyrians just right imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthernXY Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Forgot about the Ghiscari, what races are they mongrels from? To the west was the fair skinned Valyrians, fair skinned Qarthens to the east and copper skinned Dothraki to the north. Never hear about any races to the south being in contact with Essos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game Of Thrones Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Forgot about the Ghiscari, what races are they mongrels from? To the west was the fair skinned Valyrians, fair skinned Qarthens to the east and copper skinned Dothraki to the north. Never hear about any races to the south being in contact with Essos. IMO they are mongrels because only bastards with sex slave mothers survived the fall of Ghis. And some Valyrian descendants too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodor the Articulate Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 I don't see why potential criticism over racial issues should put people off writing POC characters. GRRM has already included lots of stuff that he could receive, and has received, criticism over - incest, misogyny, mental illness, physical disabilities, homosexuality, violence... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parizad Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 I think the point of Targaryan looks is to be "unreal". Think about it, someone with silver hair and purple eyes looks like something out of a cartoon. I don't see what would be so unusual about Targaryans if they were just black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodor the Articulate Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 OK, let's suppose he had made them black. You have a black family ruling over an overwhelmingly white realm, with aforementioned black family engaging in incest to keep themselves special. You have Robert's Rebellion, where a bunch of white guys* defeat a black tyrant. Aforementioned black tyrant rapes his wife, burns (white) people alive, and plots to blow up the (overwhelmingly white) capital city. If you can't see how this would lead to Martin being accused of KKK membership, I'm not sure what more anyone can do for you. And that's even before we consider the Targaryen association with magic and dragons. Do we have magical negroes on top of a race war? *Though I suppose Robert would be at least slightly tan, or to use the terminology of the bad old days, a Quadroon. Actually, I don't think it's that big a problem because Aerys isn't the only Targeryen in the series, Robert and co. did some pretty shady things themselves, and the Targs aren't the only magical family. Plus, you have Denaerys, who is one of the protagonists and wants to avenge her family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singer's stew Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 IMO they are mongrels because only bastards with sex slave mothers survived the fall of Ghis. And some Valyrian descendants too. Does that mean that valyrians acted like mongols in Russia, kIlled all men and raped all woman so offsprings would be more like them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IRON BANK Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 In a world of fantasy, why would we have stereotypes, truly amazing the lack of imagination of some people. backed by the lack of inclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game Of Thrones Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Does that mean that valyrians acted like mongols in Russia, kIlled all men and raped all woman so offsprings would be more like them? No, I mean that there were marriages between Ghiscari and Valyrian nobles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Doe Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Eddie Murphy as Varys would be a great choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Marquis de Leech Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Actually, I don't think it's that big a problem because Aerys isn't the only Targeryen in the series, Correct, but everything Aerys does would be seen through the prism of race, rather than through individual personality. Especially with the Targaryen mantra about avoiding interbreeding. In the current version, it just makes the Targaryens look eccentric and creepy. In a black Targaryen situation, it becomes about racial purity, which has serious connotations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetsunray Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Seriously? The mid 90's were not that long ago... I don't know maybe I'm misremembering the 90's but I don't think it would have been that controversial. I do however like the Targs just how they are and I agree with the other posters that the description given would have looked like the Drow... Yeah... Quite a bit surprised at how some think the 90s were not progressive years. They were the 60s-70s combined. Not to forget the backlash on the beating of Rodney King at the start of the 90s (Bodycount anyone?). Meanwhile the first decade of the 2000's seems more conservative to my memory in comparison (globally at least). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Doe Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 http://i.imgur.com/9rxecjk.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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