TWoW Prologue Info

[jentario]

I think it's pretty clear that Tom o'Sevens leaked out the info about the Edmure/Jeyne/Lannister band to Stoneheart and that shit is going to go down there. Will she herself be there, though?

[jentario]

Did you listen to the interview. He said he likes to establish rules, but ones established he likes to break them. There has been a pattern with maesters vs. povs from the wall, but yeah he might break it and he might not.

Two doesn't make a pattern. One wasn't even a Maester. They were just the right POVs for the given situation, no more and no less.

[HexMachina]

I think it's pretty clear that Tom o'Sevens leaked out the info about the Edmure/Jeyne/Lannister band to Stoneheart and that shit is going to go down there. Will she herself be there, though?

The Lady may have more pressing concerns elsewhere, depending on the timeline.

Wonder if the other members of the BwB (Greenbeard, the Huntsman, Edric Dayne etc) could be involved though.

[Lord Varys]

GRRM wrote the AFfC Prologue from the POV of multiple characters before settling on Pate (among else, Mollander and Rosey), so there was never supposed to be 'a pattern of maester POVs or something like that.

[Beorn Snow]

Two doesn't make a rule. One wasn't even a Maester. They were just the right POVs for the given situation, no more and no less.

Alright then. Would you agree there is a rule that the prologue character dies?

It looks like a pattern to me, AGOT, night watchman that deserts. ACOK, maester at Dragonstone. A nights watchman deserter in ASOS, and a maester disciple (a failed one but still) in AFFC. It seems logical to guess that the next POV after Varamyr in ADWD (who wasn´t a nights watchman but a wildling warg, but still dealing thematically with the same things as ASOS and AGOT prologues. (All killed by the Others). It´s not at all unusual to look at this as some kind of a pattern. But I won´t be annoyed should the prologue have nothing to do with maesters, the character survives etc, I´ll be too happy to have the book in my hands.

[History of Westeros]

Wouldn't Forley kill Edmure/Jeyne when he really felt threatened/that things were falling apart...?

Sure, but that's going to be an issue in any of these battle scenarios.

[Casso, King of the Seals]

Well, I think it can be said that Jeyne will not be the Prologue POV.

George reacted with "I didn't say she was a POV character, I said she will be seen in the Prologue" to the interviewer's question, which was whether Jeyne would die, as she (the interviewer) thought Jeyne is the POV of the Prologue (thus becomes one of the characters who always died - well, except Chett, who also died, but later on in the book). I don't think George said that with an intention to misguide people and say something like "she might be the POV, she might be not", but rather "I said she will not be the POV, but will be seen by the POV". Simple as that. Also, the Prologue POVs were always tertiary characters (not that there must be any pattern, but I personally don't think George would make Jeyne a Prologue POV).

[Lord Varys]

Jeyne is a tertiary character.

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

just making it easy to find this thread.

[HexMachina]

GRRM wrote the AFfC Prologue from the POV of multiple characters before settling on Pate (among else, Mollander and Rosey), so there was never supposed to be 'a pattern of maester POVs or something like that.

I love finding these little details out :) Makes me wonder what (if any) changes to the curent WoW chapters available there will be

[Gogossos]

I agree that it's almost certain (an educated guess) that Jeyne will not be the POV. Anything he said after was just to ensure that he doesn't officially confirm anything. But if Jeyne is seen, the only two options are that her convoy is attacked or that she's with the Blackfish. Any attack will have to be a stealth/infiltration type of thing, otherwise Jeyne is killed (that said that could be GRRM's route) but that simply makes the attackers look stupid and Jaime was particularly careful about that specific threat. And risking Jeyne's life simply defeats the whole purpose.

Looking at the next book as a whole: there's chaos in KL, utter chaos at the Wall, wars in Meereen and Winterfell, invasion in the Stormlands/Dorne and yet GRRM has opted to start the book somewhere in the Casterly Rock-Riverlands-Vale corridor. It simply has to hint at something significant. In AFFC, though elaborate, the prologue simply stated "there's a faceless man and a Sand Snake at the Citadel, make of that whatever you want." In the same way, Jeyne's presence in a TWOW prologue tells me that something to do with Robb's legacy is about to go down.

[History of Westeros]

Agree with Varys, if Kevan can be a prologue/epilogue character, so can Jeyne.

However, I agree with Radolukacs' interpretation of Martin's statement, the wording almost certainly means Jeyne herself is not the POV.

[Lord Varys]

I guess of the named characters, Forley Prester, Edmure, Roslin would be interesting choices for the Prologue POV. All the surviving Westerlings would also be interesting choices - Lord Gawen, Lady Sybell, Jeyne, Eleyna, and Rollam.

All of them would be in the column. Forley and Roslin could be interesting - I doubt that it will be Edmure, since he has not written 'corpse' all over him. In fact, I think he has to be rescued, or this whole plot is not going to lead anywhere. The Tully revenge thing needs to have a living adult guy at the helm, and Edmure Tully would actually in an ideal position to lead the smallfolk against the Lannister oppressors, since he must be one of the most loved Lords of Riverrun of all time (due to the fact that he actually allowed his smallfolk into his castle during the war).

Of the Westerlings both Gawen and Sybell could be interesting - to get some more insight into plotting and background stuff. Sybell could even get some redemption, if she sacrifices her life to save Jeyne from Forley's archers, or something like that. She does not have to be hanged. Although I admit that I'd expect this sort of thing from Gawen, who seems to be a decent guy, not so much from scheming Sybell. Roslin could do something similar, to save Edmure from the archers.

The Prologue could be more like Asha's first chapter in ADwD in the sense that it does not have to depict the ending but merely the beginning of the attack/ambush.

Rollam and Eleyna would not all be that important, and I'm not sure if Jeyne and Sybell are supposed to die right now. It could be interesting to see another meeting between her and Catelyn.

Thus I'd say my best guesses right now are Forley, Roslin, Gawen, with Sybell and Jeyne being less likely. Rollam and Eleyna would be the least likeliest candidates. Edmure is very unlikely, either. I don't think we'll get a no-name character who hasn't been mentioned yet.

[Victarion Chainbreaker]

Wouldn't Forley kill Edmure/Jeyne when he really felt threatened/that things were falling apart...?

I'm betting on this happening, as well as the Blackfish dying in the attempt. Once they're dead, the heir to the Tully line will be Roslin's child, who as a Frey, is as good as dead. The lords of the Riverland will never abide Lannister/Frey/Littlefinger rule, and will fight for the next-in-line Tully heir. You know, that red-haired maid with claims to the North, Vale, and Westerlands.

[Lord Varys]

Actually, the next in line would be the mother of that maid, who is currently commanding those troops. All hail Catelyn Tully Stark, the Hammer of Justice...?

She is no specter, you know. She is real and alive.

[Victarion Chainbreaker]

Actually, the next in line would be the mother of that maid, who is currently commanding those troops. All hail Catelyn Tully Stark, the Hammer of Justice...?

She is no specter, you know. She is real and alive.

She's real, no doubt, but I'm not so sure about alive. Can the undead inherit? Many believe Jon will, but with his spirit safely in Ghost he should be pretty much the same person when he comes back. Cat, though. I can't imagine any Riverland lords fighting to put her on a throne. I guess we'll find out.

[Lord Varys]

Well, Beric was still addressed and styled 'Lord Beric' after multiple deaths, so I don't see a problem there.

People really seem to tend to ignore that Cat is not a zombie but just a person who lives again with a (possible) very mundane agenda (revenge, return of her family to power, etc.).

[History of Westeros]

Well, Beric was still addressed and styled 'Lord Beric' after multiple deaths, so I don't see a problem there.

People really seem to tend to ignore that Cat is not a zombie but just a person who lives again with a (possible) very mundane agenda (revenge, return of her family to power, etc.).

The way Beric and unCat are seen is an interesting prelude to how Jon Snow might be treated.

[It's Not That Littlefinger]

LordStoneheart, on 26 Jul 2014 - 1:55 PM, said:

Is it really a rule or is that just how it turned out? Because there has been one Maester and one acolyte. Not two Maesters.

I'm not sure if it is a set-in-stone rule, but it has been the pattern so far. the other guy was training to be a maester. it just has to do with maesters.

[Le Cygne]

I'm guessing that Jeyne Westerling just pops up in the prologue, and I am now hoping it is Sybil that is the actual POV. I do need Mommie Dearest to die a horrible death so hopefully the prologue is a bit long in the tooth, LOL

Ha, love it. No wire hangers ever.

What would you say to fans who plan to stop watching the show as it catches up to the books?

George RR Martin: I encourage everyone to watch the show. I do also encourage people to read the books. In regard to the question of how to experience the story in its true form, I've said it before like this: How many children does Scarlett O'Hara have? In the book Gone with the Wind, she has three, but she has one child in the film. Of course, the true story is that she has no children because she never existed. She is a fictional character and there are two wonderful ways of telling this story. Who did Robb Stark marry? Was it Talisa, who died, or was it Jeyne Westerling, who lives, and who will be seen in the prologue of Winds of Winter?

The first two kids Scarlett had (by her first two husbands who died) never did anything of note in the story (nor added anything of note to the story). It was easy to cut them. That's like the gnat effect.

http://www.zap2it.com/videos/game-of-thrones-george-rr-martin-winds-of-winter-jeyne-westerling-prologue-258382

Excellent, he forgets all about the show when he writes.