No Arianne Martell?

[Magawii]

For me, the biggest issue isn't even the cutting of Arianne. It's the fact they're doing so by adding three characters.

Why would a show that has to ponder the addition/removal of every single character cut one and add three others in its place?

If it's true, it's ridiculous. But I'm gonna trust Dan & Dave on this one ;)

[Red Tiger]

I'm sure they still have Dornish inheritance laws; it's just that Doran only has a son so it doesn't matter. I'm assuming we'll still get the Queenmaker plot in some facet, which they can't do unless they keep female primogeniture in.

That really wouldn't make it any less gutless on D&D's part. We know the queenmaker scenario will fail and then what? Arianne's inheritance plot only really became interesting after Myrcella got deformed.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Tell me about it. I have my facepalms and seething anger all set and ready to go!

It really is striking. The replacing of Lady Blackmont with Lord Blackmont, and replacing Doran and Oberyn's ruling mother with a father, are just such comparatively minor details I HAVE NO IDEA what the motivation was for changing them. It literally makes no sense.

Makes sense if they are cutting the Dornish succession rules altogether as well as Arianne's misadventure. That leaves them open to keeping her in the mix potentially, but means they don't need to remove Myrcella's ear or hire someone to play Darkstar. Though I have to say Arianne could as easily be upset about Trystane taking over as Quentyn, even if the Dornish rules of succession follow Westeros. It could all tie in to a women's rights storyline.

I am concerned that Arianne's been merged with Obara Sand though. Obara's whip has been given to Nym, and Tyene now has Nym's daggers. Makes me wonder who got Tyene's poison. Unless that went to Obara, I'd say she's been Arianne-ized. The slideshow (with captions!) I saw indicated a larger role for Myrcella. How much do you want to bet they're going all romanceville with her and Trystane?

[Dornish Vinegar]

Makes sense if they are cutting the Dornish succession rules altogether as well as Arianne's misadventure. That leaves them open to keeping her in the mix potentially, but means they don't need to remove Myrcella's ear or hire someone to play Darkstar. Though I have to say Arianne could as easily be upset about Trystane taking over as Quentyn, even if the Dornish rules of succession follow Westeros. It could all tie in to a women's rights storyline.

I am concerned that Arianne's been merged with Obara Sand though. Obara's whip has been given to Nym, and Tyene now has Nym's daggers. Makes me wonder who got Tyene's poison. Unless that went to Obara, I'd say she's been Arianne-ized. The slideshow (with captions!) I saw indicated a larger role for Myrcella. How much do you want to bet they're going all romanceville with her and Trystane?

Oooh man, I am positive they're gonna go all romanceville with her and Trystane. It seems they've aged both characters up a little bit, so I'm assuming its for a budding romance. And it's an interesting idea you're bringing up, the Arianne-ization of Obara. I could see that happening, especially if they do decide to go through with the crowning-Myrcella plot. I could see them wanting to give that to Oberyn's daughters.

And I see what you're saying about the cutting of Dornish succession rules altogether, but even then it seems like a cop out to me. They could still include the succession rules and omit entirely the Myrcella plot, and no one would be the wiser.

[Raksha 2014]

I personally wont miss Arianne much. I'm a bit indifferent about the late comers to the books all together, however I will miss the physical reminder that females can inherit if they are first born in Dorne. That is the only thing I think I will really miss with her exclusion.

This is the biggest question I think on most peoples mind after the casting, however I think he will be somewhat meaningful in the book, otherwise why would GRRM create such a big subplot? I think skipping him would just be easier for the remaining 30 hours of the show, so I assume he will be cut and have thought that might happen for a while now. However for me this ruins Varys' motives and end game so that's the only reason I really fear for young Griff. (Again, the late comers are hard to win me over. The youtube "great Dornish plan" was the only thing that sold me on adding Dorne so late, and Varys' motives are what sold me on the Aegon subplot... but I may not be in the majority on this)

Arianne annoyed me; but her being the heir to Dorne was an important aspect in the diversity of Westerosi cultures (well, Dorne's differences, anyway). And if Doran has just one child, Trystane, and Trystane is aged up so he is old enough to be sent to court Daenerys, then he'll likely end up as dragon toast in Quentyn's place, and Doran will have no legitimate heir. And would the Sand Snakes be dumb enough to grab Myrcella and enthrone her?

[Ser Pounce FTW]

if Doran has just one child, Trystane, and Trystane is aged up so he is old enough to be sent to court Daenerys, then he'll likely end up as dragon toast in Quentyn's place, and Doran will have no legitimate heir. And would the Sand Snakes be dumb enough to grab Myrcella and enthrone her?

Which is why I don't think they're going to include Quentyn's story. Trystane is most likely going to inherit Dorne in the books and therefore is the heir on the show.

[Colonel Green]

It really is striking. The replacing of Lady Blackmont with Lord Blackmont, and replacing Doran and Oberyn's ruling mother with a father, are just such comparatively minor details I HAVE NO IDEA what the motivation was for changing them. It literally makes no sense.

I don't know about the father/mother thing, but I would bet you any amount of money that there was no "replacing" Lady Blackmont. Lady Blackmont is a non-character who exists only in the appendices. The writers needed a Dornishmen, so they picked the name of a random, irrelevant Dornish noble house, and didn't bother looking at the books.

Also, one should point out that last season introduced Lady Waynwood (who is the first female character on the show to be the head of her house).

[Dornish Vinegar]

I don't know about the father/mother thing, but I would bet you any amount of money that there was no "replacing" Lady Blackmont. Lady Blackmont is a non-character who exists only in the appendices. The writers needed a Dornishmen, so they picked the name of a random, irrelevant Dornish noble house, and didn't bother looking at the books.

Also, one should point out that last season introduced Lady Waynwood (who is the first female character on the show to be the head of her house).

There was a Lord Blackmont credited in the first episode of this most recent season, and Lady Blackmont is not a non-character who exists only in the appendices. She has a small role, but a role nonetheless, in Oberyn's traveling party when he arrives outside King's Landing--a role that was given over to Lord Blackmont in the show, or rather, would have been if they had resisted the temptation to throw Oberyn straight into a brothel. Her line from Storm, in which she speaks with Tyrion (just as Lord Blackmont did in the show):

"'My lord of Lannister,' said Lady Blackmont, 'we have come a long dusty way, and rest and refreshment would be most welcome. Might we continue on the to city?'"

It's a small change, but not an innocuous one, even if it was just lazy adaptation.

[Guess who's back]

It is always funny how people threaten to never watch the show if something is not done their way. Don't watch it then, you wont be missed by anyone.

On topic: With all these cuts, it feels like Winds of Winter might already be here in the final episodes of season 5.

[NanNymeria]

On topic: With all these cuts, it feels like Winds of Winter might already be here in the final episodes of season 5.

It most probably will. (IMO) Not casting Arianne might be a huge thing. If I follow the logic of "cutting of Quentyn is okay, because he is already dead", then I am very, very concerned Arianne will have an unfortunate ending. Also I'd like to add (this might sound here a bit off-topic) that I can't really feel the show is telling enough about the PTWP, but the young Griff appearing in the story is a huge part of it. I can't imagine how will they connect the dots without the dornish. I haven't watched the comic con interviews yet, but GRRM not writing an episode this season is also a bit disturbing for me. The changes they made during these four seasons were to make things less complicated, I get that, but this casting shocked me a bit, I mean, face it, there are huge spoilers here. If not, then I think we might get different endings.

[Newstar]

I am very, very concerned Arianne will have an unfortunate ending

Now you're concerned? Wasn't the existence in the books of a spare Martell with remarkably little to do to date (Trystane) a bit of a tipoff that Arianne is not long for this world?

[NanNymeria]

No.

[Ser Pounce FTW]

Wasn't the existence in the books of a spare Martell with remarkably little to do to date (Trystane) a bit of a tipoff that Arianne is not long for this world?

Exactly. Trystane will most likely be Doran's heir and succeed him which is why they're not bothering with Arianne or Quentyn.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Oooh man, I am positive they're gonna go all romanceville with her and Trystane. It seems they've aged both characters up a little bit, so I'm assuming its for a budding romance. And it's an interesting idea you're bringing up, the Arianne-ization of Obara. I could see that happening, especially if they do decide to go through with the crowning-Myrcella plot. I could see them wanting to give that to Oberyn's daughters.

And I see what you're saying about the cutting of Dornish succession rules altogether, but even then it seems like a cop out to me. They could still include the succession rules and omit entirely the Myrcella plot, and no one would be the wiser.

Just trying to reconcile the new casting news with the changes already made. In the show they have Doran's father having ruled before him instead of his mother.

Now you're concerned? Wasn't the existence in the books of a spare Martell with remarkably little to do to date (Trystane) a bit of a tipoff that Arianne is not long for this world?

Not necessarily. Rickon hasn't been in the books much. Does that mean all the other Starks are going to die?

I just figured Trystane will come into play later. Maybe as the valonqar.

[Dornish Vinegar]

Just trying to reconcile the new casting news with the changes already made. In the show they have Doran's father having ruled before him instead of his mother.

For sure for sure, I understand. Hope I didn't come across harshly :cheers:

[Alayne's Shadow.]

Now you're concerned? Wasn't the existence in the books of a spare Martell with remarkably little to do to date (Trystane) a bit of a tipoff that Arianne is not long for this world?

I don't think there's a tipoff that Arianne isn't long because of Trystane. He's basically a non-character compared to his older sister. That's the same as saying Rickon exists because Robb/Sansa/Arya/Bran/Jon aren't long for this world.

[Queen Ayras Lord Commander]

Two threads must become one:

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/114696-arianne-martell-opinions/

Technically this one started first, but the other is more developed.

[Queen of Whores]

Two threads must become one:

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/114696-arianne-martell-opinions/

Technically this one started first, but the other is more developed.

Heh yeah, I'm jumping back and forth between them, trying to remember what I posted in each :lol:

Arianne may not be in the show, but she's awesome enough to have two threads 'round here for her.

[Pecan]

Seriously, Lord Blackmont instead of Lady Blackmont? I can't think of anything more innocuous to get upset over. :bang:

[Mrs_Darcy]

Seriously, Lord Blackmont instead of Lady Blackmont? I can't think of anything more innocuous to get upset over. :bang:

It is not this single incident, but the SUM of all, that has people upset (Doran's mother, Lady Stokeworth, Lady Blackmont, etc.)

Dorne is shown as a place, where women rule in their own right and yet we have yet to meet (or even see or hear about) ANY Dornish woman being in power.

And it is not, as if explaining the oddity of Dornish inheritance law will cost a lot of time. A single sentence from Oberyn Martell last season and the matter would be fixed.

If they are going to have the crown-Myrcella-as-queen-plot in the next season, they will have to explain it anyway, as only the difference in the laws between Dorne and the rest of Westeros regarding inheritances makes it possible.

Regarding the non-Dornish characters such as Lady Stokeworth: They have certainly established, that women can rule a house in their own right, if there are no male heirs available (Tyrion marries Sansa, because he wants to rule the North, Bronn marries Lollys to rule Stokeworth), so they do not have to explain that women can rule.

Most people complaining about the decisions to exchange ruling women with men including me have never and will never adapt a script. But they find it strange, that the writers even bother to change these things, because they are so minor.