Discussion of the Season 5 storylines - Implications of the Casting News from San Diego

[The Reckoner]

I'm prepared for Littlefinger to offer Alayne to Lord Bolton for some convoluted scheme to seize the north.

Identity was a major theme connecting A Feast for Crows and A Dance with Dragons? That's what Farya's role in the narrative was: service to the theme. It is especially poignant in the Reek chapters of ADWD, given Reek's "you have to remember your name" line. Meanwhile Jon and Dany are reluctant to embrace their identities as rulers while Cersei is royally torpedoing her own in King's Landing.

[Ned_Stark]

I like your speculation Fury Burns, except for the GreatJon part, as I don't think they'll bring him back since the actor left on bad terms, and he's not the kind of character you can simply replace with another actor. Because at that point, might as well just use Manderly.

I don't much care about the Dorne storyline; but cutting Wyman Manderly will be a pretty big deal. The mummer's farce that he put for Davos in his pov chapters for DoD was the best plot in the North. The North remembers.

[FalseKnight]

Sigh... This "jetpack" stuff is so juvenile. People are acting like infants who have no concept of object permanence - or in this case how time works in a visual medium.

So let me just make things clear, so people understand.

1. An unknown amount of time may pass between episodes (some start right after the previous ended, other times there are weeks/months that have passed)

2. An unknown amount of time may pass between scenes in an episode. Do you really need to see the entire travel of a person from point A to point B? Is it really that hard to grasp what has happened? Do you hunger for scenes where travel times are awkwardly inserted into dialog, like "Bronn, as you know we have been riding for 2 weeks now". Is that what the show needs to spend time on?

C'mon.

GRRM made them read hundreds and hundreds of pages of travelogue to put characters in Meereen, so they want viewers to suffer the same fate. I agree, though, jetpack is dumb.

[Annara Snow]

I'm prepared for Littlefinger to offer Alayne to Lord Bolton for some convoluted scheme to seize the north.

Say what? :huh:

[Oriolesmagic]

Say what? :huh:

Having her take the role as fArya. Instead it'll be...well, rSansa.

[Annara Snow]

Having her take the role as fArya. Instead it'll be...well, rSansa.

Sorry, my post was meant to mean "That makes absolutely no sense and is one of the most absurd ideas I've read on these forums".

[Oriolesmagic]

Sorry, my post was meant to mean "That makes absolutely no sense and is one of the most absurd ideas I've read on these forums".

And I think a lot of book readers will see it that way. With that said, there has to be some way to have the Theon/Winterfell story and I don't think introducing a new character that audience's have no connection to is the way to do it. If I was a just a TV watcher, I'd be thinking, "Who is this random girl? Theon sure didn't seem to care about her when he was back in Winterfell, why does she matter now?" Just because of Ramsay? Well, we know that's not true, he didn't react when he saw Ramsay hunting that other random girl with his dogs.

What other alternatives are there?

[Annara Snow]

And I think a lot of book readers will see it that way.

No, everyone would see it that way if D&D were to go insane and do such a ridiculous thing that makes zero sense for the character of LF, for the character of Sansa as portrayed in season 4, for the politics of Westeros, for the future plotlines etc. etc. Which is not going to happen.

With that said, there has to be some way to have the Theon/Winterfell story and I don't think introducing a new character that audience's have no connection to is the way to do it. If I was a just a TV watcher, I'd be thinking, "Who is this random girl? Theon sure didn't seem to care about her when he was back in Winterfell, why does she matter now?" Just because of Ramsay? Well, we know that's not true, he didn't react when he saw Ramsay hunting that other random girl with his dogs.

Yes, Jeyne is "random", not a daughter of the Ned, not a daughter of a great house, and doesn't "matter". Kind of like those two boys Theon had killed and roasted to pass of as Bran and Rickon. She is just "Jeyne, her name is Jeyne, it rhymes with pain", the fellow victim of Ramsay and innocent girl who wouldn't matter to anyone else if they knew she was not Arya. Congratulations for completely missing the entire point of Theon's ADWD storyline. You must have thought it made no sense, what with him caring about "a random girl" "he didn't care about in Winterfell". Luckily, the vast majority of readers feel the opposite, that it's one of the best storylines in the books and a great and poignant story of redemption.

[Kasakka]

Having her take the role as fArya. Instead it'll be...well, rSansa.

That doesn't make any sense.

[Oriolesmagic]

No, everyone would see it that way if D&D were to go insane and do such a ridiculous thing that makes zero sense for the character of LF, for the character of Sansa as portrayed in season 4, for the politics of Westeros, for the future plotlines etc. etc. Which is not going to happen.

Yes, Jeyne is "random", not a daughter of the Ned, not a daughter of a great house, and doesn't "matter". Kind of like those two boys Theon had killed and roasted to pass of as Bran and Rickon. She is just "Jeyne, her name is Jeyne, it rhymes with pain", the fellow victim of Ramsay and innocent girl who wouldn't matter to anyone else if they knew she was not Arya. Congratulations for completely missing the entire point of Theon's ADWD storyline. You must have thought it made no sense, what with him caring about "a random girl" "he didn't care about in Winterfell". Luckily, the vast majority of readers feel the opposite, that it's one of the best storylines in the books and a great and poignant story of redemption.

You completely misread what I posted. You, so conveniently, skipped over the "If I was a just a TV watcher" part of my statement. I fully understand why she is important and why Theon feels he need to act and I, too, love that part of the books.

The only thing that I'm saying is, IF I WAS ONLY SOMEONE WHO WATCHED THE TELEVISION SHOW, I would certainly be questioning why this girl is so much more important to Theon than the other girl Ramsay actually slaughtered in front of him. I just simply don't feel that adding a brand new character that tv show audiences have no prior connection to will draw any sort of reaction from the viewers.

Please don't insult my appreciation of the books for simply questioning how the transition from page to screen could be properly handled. Thank you.

[Annara Snow]

You completely misread what I posted. You, so conveniently, skipped over the "If I was a just a TV watcher" part of my statement. I fully understand why she is important and why Theon feels he need to act and I, too, love that part of the books.

The only thing that I'm saying is, IF I WAS ONLY SOMEONE WHO WATCHED THE TELEVISION SHOW, I would certainly be questioning why this girl is so much more important to Theon than the other girl Ramsay actually slaughtered in front of him. I just simply don't feel that adding a brand new character that tv show audiences have no prior connection to will draw any sort of reaction from the viewers.

Please don't insult my appreciation of the books for simply questioning how the transition from page to screen could be properly handled. Thank you.

Because it would be so inconceivable for Theon to feel compassion for an innocent young girl who is suffering at Ramsay's hands in a similar way he has? OK.

So, how is that different from the book? Theon didn't care for Jeyne while he was at Winterfell, she's pretty random as far as people of Westeros are concerned, and few readers had much of a connection to her, since she was such a minor character.

And how would it be different if it were Sansa? Theon didn't care about her when he was in Winterfell, either. Except as a potential trophy wife. Which we don't even know in the show.

Last but certainly, oh heavens, not the least, how on Earth does it make a lick of sense that LF would be sending Sansa to the Boltons? I don't know where even to start with all the ways it doesn't make sense, from the fact Sansa is still offically married and can't marry anyone, to the fact that Sansa is wanted by the crown for regicide (by the Boltons' allies!), to the fact that LF would have absolutely no reason in the world to give Sansa to anyone and give up someone of such a high political value that he can use in the future and has big plans for- least of all to Boltons, LF is sexually obsessed with her and sure as hell isn't going to be giving her up, to the fact that Sansa's role is clearly not to be the victim of yet another sadistic monster and that her storyline is clearly not going there in the books and even more obviously in the show, to the fact that this would completely fuck up the entire storyline of one of the series's main characters (Sansa) just to make her "the Woman in the Refrigerator" for a male character who is actually a less major character than she is???!!

Heck, at least you could have said that it will be real Arya instead of fake Arya - that would also do all the latter stupid things like offensively fuck up a major female character's storyline and do something that makes zero sense for her arc, but at least it would make a little bit more sense in-universe since Arya is not married and not wanted for regicide by the Lannisters, she's not in LF's hands and he is not obsessed with her and he wouldn't be sending her anyway, and the Boltons would actually try to marry her to Ramsay if they could get their hands on her.

[Oriolesmagic]

Because it would be so inconceivable for Theon to feel compassion for an innocent young girl who is suffering at Ramsay's hands in a similar way he has? OK.

So, how is that different from the book? Theon didn't care for Jeyne while he was at Winterfell, she's pretty random as far as people of Westeros are concerned, and few readers had much of a connection to her, since she was such a minor character.

And how would it be different if it were Sansa? Theon didn't care about her when he was in Winterfell, either. Except as a potential trophy wife. Which we don't even know in the show.

Last but certainly, oh heavens, not the least, how on Earth does it make a lick of sense that LF would be sending Sansa to the Boltons? I don't know where even to start with all the ways it doesn't make sense, from the fact Sansa is still offically married and can't marry anyone, to the fact that Sansa is wanted by the crown for regicide (by the Boltons' allies!), to the fact that LF would have absolutely no reason in the world to give Sansa to anyone and give up someone of such a high political value that he can use in the future and has big plans for- least of all to Boltons, LF is sexually obsessed with her and sure as hell isn't going to be giving her up, to the fact that Sansa's role is clearly not to be the victim of yet another sadistic monster and that her storyline is clearly not going there in the books and even more obviously in the show, to the fact that this would completely fuck up the entire storyline of one of the series's main characters (Sansa) just to make her "the Woman in the Refrigerator" for a male character who is actually a less major character than she is???!!

Heck, at least you could have said that it will be real Arya instead of fake Arya - that would also do all the latter stupid things like offensively fuck up a major female character's storyline and do something that makes zero sense for her arc, but at least it would make a little bit more sense in-universe since Arya is not married and not wanted for regicide by the Lannisters, she's not in LF's hands and he is not obsessed with her and he wouldn't be sending her anyway, and the Boltons would actually try to marry her to Ramsay if they could get their hands on her.

I respectfully disagree. There's certainly ways to write around Sansa not being able to marry. (Tywin is dead and Lannister power is dwindling, Bolton could say Tyrion is likely dead, etc.)

We all know that Littlefinger's main aspiration for Sansa is to use her to control the North. I really don't think we're going to get any of the Harry the Heir stuff so a way to move past that is to marry Sansa to the current holders of Winterfell. Sansa is basically moving into uncharted waters here as far as material goes and it may be that D&D will go in a different direction than GRRM will with the character.

As for Littlefinger giving her up, that's where I run into the only thing that I think D&D might not be able to write around.

I'm not saying that I think they WILL do this and I'm definitely not saying that I think they SHOULD do this (As you seem to assume). I'm merely thinking of different ways that that I could see the show writers handling these two storylines. Sansa going to Winterfell could potentially be a direction I see them going. Sorry, if that upsets you.

[Colonel Green]

Sansa going to Winterfell could potentially be a direction I see them going.

How does that in any way fit with how they've positioned Sansa's story at the end of season four?

[zaphodbrx]

Anyone up for some S5 Brienne speculation? Here's mine.

Scenario 1. Given the Yara treatment. One, two filler scenes and at the end she'll be hanged by Stoneheart.

Possible but I think Stoneheart is really unlikely.

Scenario 2. Given the Gendry treatment. She just disappears.

Scenario 3. Brienne goes to Winterfell. The reason I think this is because they had a ( fairly pointless otherwise ) conversation with Margery about her getting revenge on Stannis, so she might join up with the Boltons. They could reminisce a bit about the good old times. Hey remember Locke? We got him killed by filler. High five!

Scenario 4. Brienne goes Dorne. This one's obvious. Jamie's there. Pod will be happy to get some Dornish ass ( or is that the other way around? ) Cons: There isn't much for her to do there.

Scenario 5. Brienne joins the Faith Militant. I like this one. They can put some stuff from the books and she could take over the Gravedigger's role in the story ( if Cleganebowl theory is true ). Even if she doesn't join them they can put a sub plot and flesh out the Faith more. For example, there could be some Septons about to be burned by the Brotherhood ( for not converting ) and Brienne rescues them.

Scenario 6. Brienne goes to the Vale and meets Sansa. This will fuck up Sansa's story but who cares. They already had her meet Arya, so I can see it happening.

One point I would like to note is that D & D are incredibly fond of giving Brienne boss fights or semi boss fights. Season 2: Loras, 3 Stark men, Season 3: Jamie, the Bear, Season 4: the Hound. So I am pretty confident that they will give her a boss fight or two, just don't know who it will be.

Another problem I can see is that Brienne is in danger of being overshadowed by the Sand Snakes. Let's see, hot, spunky women who show off T&A , AND can fight! Yara might be given a more active role as well. If Brienne is to remain the top warrior woman of GoT, she has an uphill task to remain relevant.

[lokisnow]

Scenario 7. Brienne joins the BWB and stoneheart stuff happens with Brienne or Beric taking over the stone heart role.

[Annara Snow]

Reading this thread is making me start losing my faith in humanity.

[Oriolesmagic]

Scenario 7. Brienne joins the BWB and stoneheart stuff happens with Brienne or Beric taking over the stone heart role.

I'm assuming the whole finding Jaime thing would be tossed out then? It's not an awful idea. But I still oddly feel like Stoneheart is going to make an appearance. The show is definitely interested in as many jaw-dropping moments as possible and I can't imagine they'd decide to take out one of the biggest of those moments in the entire series. But that's just me.

If there's no Stoneheart, I think she's gonna end up at the Eyrie doing something. I can't imagine she'd abandon her oath to Lady Stark and Jaime by going back to King's Landing or anywhere that the Stark daughters won't be.

[Ser Pounce FTW]

If there's no Stoneheart, I think she's gonna end up at the Eyrie doing something. I can't imagine she'd abandon her oath to Lady Stark and Jaime by going back to King's Landing or anywhere that the Stark daughters won't be.

No, even if there's no Stoneheart, Brienne will still need to make a decision regarding her oath. It won't just disappear since it's what her arc is all about.

[Oriolesmagic]

No, even if there's no Stoneheart, Brienne will still need to make a decision regarding her oath. It won't just disappear since it's what her arc is all about.

Exactly. And I just don't see Brienne abandoning her oath, especially after coming so close in the show. So that's why I think she'll continue to head towards the Vale. Will she actually get there though? And what happens when she arrives? Her story is essentially going to be fanfiction if there's no Stoneheart so really anything could happen. (Probably dependent upon what happens with Sansa this coming season)

[Ser Pounce FTW]

Exactly. And I just don't see Brienne abandoning her oath, especially after coming so close in the show. So that's why I think she'll continue to head towards the Vale. Will she actually get there though? And what happens when she arrives? Her story is essentially going to be fanfiction if there's no Stoneheart so really anything could happen. (Probably dependent upon what happens with Sansa this coming season)

Actually I think she'll survive her encounter with LS in the books so if there's no LS, I expect Brienne to go where ever it is she heads to in the books. That might be to continue looking for Sansa but let's face it, Brienne's oath will be impossible to keep given how things are now since there is no where to free Sansa to. I don't think anyone expects Brienne to take Sansa away from the Vale, in the books or the show. She's safest in the Vale at the moment. Sophie mentioned Sansa meeting familiar people in an interview so it might be Brienne and then she might head some where completely different once she finds Sansa. Brienne needs a new mission in both the books and the show. That's hardly fanfiction.