Goodkind XII

[MinDonner]

In a palace, in the Midlands,

Getting captured all the time,

Dwelt a Confessor, snappy dresser

And her name was Kahlentine.

Oh my darlin, oh my darlin

Oh my darlin, Kahlentine

You are lost and gone forever

Dreadful sorry, Kahlentine.

[whelp]

The Lord Rahl's private Litany of Fear Reason:

"I must not think.

Reason is the thing-killer.

Reason is the little-death that brings visceral obliteration.

I will face my reason.

I will force it to pass over me and through me.

And when it has gone past I will turn the inner thing to see its path.

Where the reason has gone there will be the thing.

And then I can free it."

MinDonner:

Deornoth:

Is the emperor of the IO a good ol' boy?

Sure - and I guess he is drinkin' whisky and rye

[Walpurgisborn]

Is the emperor of the IO a good ol' boy?

Never meaning no harm?

Beats all you ever saw, been in trouble with the law

Since the day he was born?

[Gylfie]

Despite all the other problems that *some* people might have with this series, I think it's important to appreciate some of the wonderful things we've been given.

Namely, magical boobs.

Sure, it might looks like some of the women are magic, but that's not really the case. It's just their boobs. And that, my friends, is brilliance. In fact, it's going to be a major element in the Sword of Truth porno I'm currently writing the script for. That, and of course a guy in a rubber Namble suit.

[Knight of the Wineskin]

She wanted to kick the boy’s teeth in as she watched his cruel grin.

So Richard's moral celery has rubbed off on her?

[Jaxom 1974]

“Lyle?†<Lame name for a wizard if you ask me.> Warren stared incredulously. “Lyle? It was you?â€

See, MM, sometimes you give us snippets and things pop into our heads. I like everything you've done, but I'd've done something like this for this sentence:

“Lyle?†<"There are some that call me...Lyle.> Warren stared incredulously. “Lyle? It was you?â€

[Watcher]

Blah, another twisted QotD. What does Goodkind (BBHN) have against children? Does he have one non-evil kid in his story? This seems to be a theme in his books, that kids no matter how young are actually little adults that need to be put down as ruthlessly and violently as an adult.

I am really having trouble distinguishing between Goodkind’s (BBHN) philosophy and Bin Liden’s on how to wage a war.

[Tagot]

Blah, another twisted QotD. What does Goodkind (BBHN) have against children? Does he have one non-evil kid in his story? This seems to be a theme in his books, that kids no matter how young are actually little adults that need to be put down as ruthlessly and violently as an adult.

I am really having trouble distinguishing between Goodkind’s (BBHN) philosophy and Bin Liden’s on how to wage a war.

I hate to say this... but I think that in this case, Goodkind was right. Kahlan didn't unleash her power until she was actually in danger, when the boy, with Jagang in his mind, lunged at her and tried to kill her. She had no choice- it was entirely self-defense. It's not like Kahlan saw the boy, said to herself "he is an evil minion of the Imperial Order," and unleashed her power, which would obviously not be justifiable.

[theMountainGoat]

But that is not the point Tagot. Why make the character a child in the first place? Except to make the point that children can be evil too and need taking out no matter what. Ask yourself, was this really the best way the author could have handled this situation? Was there a better alternative which would have avoided the hero characters having to kill a child?

Was the inclusion of this scene of such vital important to the advancement of the story that murdering a child was the only necessary way to achieve this?

[Elrostar]

It really does seem like TG doesn't like children... Or maybe that's just the impression we're getting from these quotes. Maybe there are lots of quotes in which he tells us about happy clappy delightful children and how Richard is so happy that they can revel in the innocence of childhood and stuff? You know, with kittens? And puppies?

I'm beginning to think that we will never run out of disturbing quotes from this series...

However, according to a few of the people commenting on MinDonner's site, they're all just taken out of context and we're reading way too much into them, and they didn't even really happen at all. So I guess MM is just making them all up or something?

[Higravity]

Looks like Colbert could be a fan of TG.

Quote:

Global Language Monitor defined “truthiness†as used by Colbert as meaning “truth unencumbered by the facts.â€

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14543284/

[Tagot]

But that is not the point Tagot. Why make the character a child in the first place? Except to make the point that children can be evil too and need taking out no matter what. Ask yourself, was this really the best way the author could have handled this situation? Was there a better alternative which would have avoided the hero characters having to kill a child?

Was the inclusion of this scene of such vital important to the advancement of the story that murdering a child was the only necessary way to achieve this?

Maybe TG wants to make the point that your life always comes first, and that sometimes you need to defend it at the expense of someone who is hurting you, disregarding sentiment. From my understanding that is an important aspect of his objectivist philosophy. He tried to make it in book 1 with Violet and failed, because as we on this thread have pointed out Richard was in no direct danger. I think that he was spot-on here, though.

Oh, and Elrostar.... TG more or less does exactly what you said with Rachel, the little girl who Chase adopts. Apparently, though, she loves being told that she is ugly (by Richard, anyway).

[Moosicus]

It really does seem like TG doesn't like children... Or maybe that's just the impression we're getting from these quotes. Maybe there are lots of quotes in which he tells us about happy clappy delightful children and how Richard is so happy that they can revel in the innocence of childhood and stuff? You know, with kittens? And puppies?

I'm beginning to think that we will never run out of disturbing quotes from this series...

However, according to a few of the people commenting on MinDonner's site, they're all just taken out of context and we're reading way too much into them, and they didn't even really happen at all. So I guess MM is just making them all up or something?

1) One of the few children in the story that isn't a monster is Rachel. Zedd ends up seeing something in her, I can't remember what, but insists that Chase (bad-ass boundery warden) teach her everything he knows about fighting and killing, to make her just like Chase. I'm sure when Rachel starts slaughtering people it will all be for the greater good, and done with the taste of moral celery.

2) Well, we have to run out of quotes sometime, but I doubt it will happen anytime soon. Never forget, there's still one more book in the series.

3) If I could make all this shit up I'd be writing my own lousy novels for idiots about the nobility of the human spirit, and making a fortune doing it. The accusation that I take things out of context is absurd. You guys are getting the straight skinny here, unfortunately. If the douchebags who whine on Mindonner's site would like to point out how things are being skewed over here then by all means let them point it out.

[Watcher]

Yes Mountain Goat restated my point. Is it essential that Lyle be 12? I think to Goodkind it is because as he stated, before Kahlan released her power he’s not scared or misguided he is simply the enemy and needs to be destroyed. Just like Violet and the hippy leader kid.

Like so much of Goodkind’s basic beliefs I strongly disagree with this one. Yeah there are some kids that have serious problems and a rare few that can’t function in a civilized society. But on the whole kids aren’t little adults and they don’t have the same reasoning capacity or understanding of the world that adults do. To treat them the same as an adult shows a complete lack of understanding about children and humans in general.

I love how Mystar defends Goodkind by saying these quotes are taken out of context. That’s hiralous. You can take a sentence or two out of context. Whole paragraphs aren’t taken out of context.

[VigoTheCarpathian]

One (slightly mathematical) comment on the Yeardjectivist nature of killing children:

child + threat = child jaw kicking

child + killing = child killing

I'm pretty sure if Rachel was kicked/killed, it would be portrayed a gigantic tragedy, with many vows and gnashings of teeth, and a bunch of Imperial kids being tortured and killed for vengeance.

On another note, I don't know if this has been discussed at length, but how does someone in SoT-land get a cool name? I mean, Zedd and Kahlan, and even Darken, Jagang[bang] and Nicci are alright fantasy (or speculative fiction in a fantasy realm) names.

But then we have Richard, Warren, Lyle, Rachel, Harold, Tom...and they are all from different nations? I'm not an expert on cultures or "name-y-ology", but shouldn't there at least be a consistency from locale to locale?

I don't know if this is a huge point or not, but I think Yeardi has some naming conventions with the Mud People (and maybe other cultures), but then gets all half-assed with others, and seems to just pick common and "made up" names at other times. Again, a small point against him being a good author/thinker.

[Moosicus]

I think some people missed that it was actually Jagang that killed the kid, not Kahlan. She was just trying to wipe out his brain. My chief complaint with this quote is the torture that's inflicted on poor Lyle after Cara already has control of his magic. It's gratuitous on her part, and Kahlan finally puts a stop to it only because it was upsetting poor Warren. Of course we know that it's okay to torture members of the Order no matter what their age is, what they've done, or if there's any point to it other than spite, or perhaps pleasure. It's not as bad as the 'Gadi' scene, cuz Lyle was still conceivably a threat, though a very minor one. Even lunging for Kahlan, he's still 10-12 years old. Oh the terror!

[Spectralist]

You forget, in a world where a chicken is a terrifyingly significant threat, a child of 12 who is possessed by a creepy old man with crazy eyes could conceivably tear Kahlan apart with his pinky finger.

[Moosicus]

You forget, in a world where a chicken is a terrifyingly significant threat, a child of 12 who is possessed by a creepy old man with crazy eyes could conceivably tear Kahlan apart with his pinky finger.

Fair enough. Kahlan was after all completely terrified of that stupid chicken. I think its not so much that the threats are real, but instead that Kahlan is completely fucked up in the head. Later on in Phantom she isn't nearly as frightened of Jagang in person as she was of that damn chicken. Something is definitely wrong with that woman. Her moral celery has driven her bat-shit crazy.

[Baeraad]

It really does seem like TG doesn't like children... Or maybe that's just the impression we're getting from these quotes. Maybe there are lots of quotes in which he tells us about happy clappy delightful children and how Richard is so happy that they can revel in the innocence of childhood and stuff? You know, with kittens? And puppies?

Oh good lord, does he ever. :sick: He goes on and on and on about it. Yay children! Children are wonderful! Having them is the purpose of life and anyone who doesn't want to is evil! Behold my immense family values!

Of course, a child who acts against you is evil and needs to be put down, and possibly also tortured. Which rather makes me wonder what Richard would do if Shota's prophesy turned out to be true, and his and Kahlan's kid really did turn out to be evil. Would there be paternal jaw-kickings? With much angst about him being "forced" to do it, of course?

But of course, that's entirely academic - no child raised by Richard's and Kahlan's perfect parenting skills could ever become any less than perfect. (in fact, that's exactly how Goodkind very obviously intends to play it - Shota has prophesised that their child will be a male Confessor, so she assumes it'll be evil, because all previous male Confessors have been. But of course it'll be the first-ever good male Confessor, thereby proving the folly of believing in predestination)

The quotes and discussion here has focused on the gory and psychotic nature of the books. And why not, because that certainly deserves to be noted. But to me, that's just half of why Goodkind is the lowest form of human life. The other half is the sugary-sweet wholesomeness he preaches, the sappiness and sentimentality.

The man's like Hollywood's at its very cheesiest - either ultra-violence or ultra-sappiness, because those are the two things that appeals completely to the feelings and disconnects the brain. And whatever Terry "lardo is a triumph of human invention" Goodkind says, he hates intelligence.

Ah, if only he had been born a wolf instead of a man. Then he could have gotten to run around being noble and unthinking, and we could have been spared. Alas, we don't live in the best of all possible worlds...

[Jerol]

I've read quite a lot of fantasy and seen my fair share of dark lords, necromancers and so on. Jagang (or whatever his name is) is the first evil emperor I've seen who addresses his enemies as darlin'. Is the emperor of the IO a good ol' boy?

I was thinking it sounded not like a good ol' boy but more like a man who might prefer the company of other men. The kind of guy who would find inspiration in statues that were obviously masculine. The sort of fella on whom bared boobies would have no effect. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Feel free to write all the Jagang/Loras cross-fic slash you want.