shmewdog Posted October 1, 2014 Author Share Posted October 1, 2014 Marrying Hizdahr worked though. The killings stopped. and then he (likely) tried to poison her, which would have made him de facto ruler of Mereen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 and then he (likely) tried to poison her, which would have made him de facto ruler of Mereen Maybe it was him, maybe it wasn't :dunno: Marrying him was the best thing she could do for her people at the time though. She was tired of them being murdered in the streets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shmewdog Posted October 1, 2014 Author Share Posted October 1, 2014 It really was a damned-if-you do, damned-if-you-don't situation as it was. That's why in hindsight I think she should've picked Quentyn. He certainly wouldn't have betrayed her. Doran, on the other hand...who knows Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drogonthedread Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Which didn't turn out very well. Who knows how things would've turned out if she decided to abandon Mereen at the last minute and head for Westeros with an alliance to Dorne. But marrying Hizdahr, who by the way could fit as the "son's son" (Sons of the Harpy), was not a great idea at all. she still wouldnt have nothing to feed the freedman and her army during the voyage and you say agree to his pact and travel to westeros but how I ask you .he came with three men with no ships to carry her and came to her as a hostage from the sellsword company and there is no way out for them from meereen .the sea is blocked and yunkai is at their gates and say he managed to take her alone without the army somehow .doran wouldnt want that because the whole reason he has send quentyn because danny as dragons and armies ETA:corrections for spelling mistakes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oursisthefury69 Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Dany has misinterpreted this portion of Quaithe's warning. Dany got the warning from the image of Quaithe that appeared in her bedroom, through spoken word. She didn't read it like we did when we were in her POV in that chapter. So since Dany interpreted the warning as "sun's son", that what we see. But I argue that Quaithe really meant "Son's son". When speaking to someone, it sounds exactly the same, but only through reading it would you be able to tell what was really meant. And Dany doesn't get to ask Quaithe to elaborate on her warning either. So who is the "Son's son?" Obviously it would be Daario Naharis, the Second son mercenary who has likely been plotting betrayal from the beginning. WHat is your basis for the argument other than sun and son being pronounced the same? Maybe reread the prophecy/ obtain a better overall understanding of the series Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Hodor Hodor of Hodor Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Dany has misinterpreted this portion of Quaithe's warning. Dany got the warning from the image of Quaithe that appeared in her bedroom, through spoken word. She didn't read it like we did when we were in her POV in that chapter. So since Dany interpreted the warning as "sun's son", that what we see. But I argue that Quaithe really meant "Son's son". When speaking to someone, it sounds exactly the same, but only through reading it would you be able to tell what was really meant. And Dany doesn't get to ask Quaithe to elaborate on her warning either. So who is the "Son's son?" Obviously it would be Daario Naharis, the Second son mercenary who has likely been plotting betrayal from the beginning. that would be the cheapest trick a writer could pull off to mislead his readers. way to cheap for grrm. and besides, this quote clearly refers to the sigils of houses, except for darkflame, but iirc the word was different in an earlier version of the chapter (read at some con). it would be absurd to use an expression that would match with anybody (as long as he is male of course) for one person while using expressions that correlate with very specific characters for the other 5 persons. It really was a damned-if-you do, damned-if-you-don't situation as it was. That's why in hindsight I think she should've picked Quentyn. He certainly wouldn't have betrayed her. Doran, on the other hand...who knows i agree that quentyn wouldn't have betrayed her willingly though he already gave false numbers about dornes military strength (not sure if he knew those were wrong). but the real danger doesn't come from him, it comes from doran and arianne. remember: doran made plans for a aegon-arianne marriage despite not knowing about quentyns death. so doran risked a conflict between the two targs as well as between his own children. and as aegon has a better claim (if he is real of course) dany would not become queen. and there are the sandsnakes who can not be trusted either. enough good reasons not to trust quentyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joluoto2 Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 and then he (likely) tried to poison her, which would have made him de facto ruler of Mereen That doesn't make any sense. Daenerys was giving Hizdahr what he wanted, the Harpy what they wanted and the Yunkish what they wanted. No one really had a reason to kill her. Hizdahr sure is ambitious and can be quite devious, and still isn't really very smart. But despite all this I don't see him poisoning Daenerys. Daenerys was already giving him all the power. He really had no reason to kill her. Also, anyone would know Daenerys would not be very likely to eat locusts of all things. If they wanted to get to her, they would have poisoned the figs. Daenerys was likely not the target. The Shavepate is lying to get Barristan's support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimim Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Marrying him was the best thing she could do for her people at the time though. She was tired of them being murdered in the streets. Except that he may have been acting with the group who were murdering her people (how did he stop the killings for 90 days without that kind of connection??) and she married him. I'm not sure if that would qualify as a good move. I think the prophecy has meaning beyond the immediate moment. It could refer to all the people connected with the Meereen situation, but it could also be something else. There are plenty of lions who could prove dangerous. There's no need to limit it to Tyrion, just because he's there. Ditto with Sun's son. Could be Quentyn, but could also be Trystane, or even Doran. There are plenty of Krakens; Euron could be more dangerous than Victarion. Mummer's dragon is a mystery. Could be Aegon, then maybe not. Like Dany's three betrayals, it's unclear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChillyPolly Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 So who is the "Son's son?" Obviously it would be Daario Naharis, the Second son mercenary who has likely been plotting betrayal from the beginning. Daario is of the Stormcrows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratbane Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 (1) "Sun's son" being misinterpreted as "son's son" only makes sense if we believe that the characters are actually speaking English rather than their own language which is represented as English in the novel, or that "sun" and "son" are homonyms in that language as well. (2) I'm not saying its the case, but the "perfumed Seneschal" may be meant quite literally. Remember that the "Seneschal" is the title of the current governing archmeister of the Citadel. And at least one archmeister, Marwyn, is seeking out Dany to advise her. And someone, the Alchemist, who apparently is or has the ability to change appearance like the FM, is there at the Citadel for some unknown reason. I'm not saying that's the case, but it is a possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Except that he may have been acting with the group who were murdering her people (how did he stop the killings for 90 days without that kind of connection??) and she married him. I'm not sure if that would qualify as a good move. Of course he was connected to the SotH. And yes I think it should qualify as a good move. She made a sacrifice for her people, and it worked. I'm sure random Unsullied #37 appreciated she was able to ensure his safety during his midnight patrols through the streets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Of course he was connected to the SotH. And yes I think it should qualify as a good move. She made a sacrifice for her people, and it worked. I'm sure random Unsullied #37 appreciated she was able to ensure his safety during his midnight patrols through the streets. The unsullied, free slaves and free dothrakis appreciate Dany's effort waaaay more than we, readers who have all of the info they don't, do. It is known. :dunno: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endymion I Targaryen Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 I think Sun's son can be Doran Martell who maybe will try to be an ally with both parties (Dany,Aegon) or even Arianne if she marries Aegon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 The unsullied, free slaves and free dothrakis appreciate Dany's effort waaaay more than we, readers who have all of the info they don't, do. It is known. :dunno: What the hell's going on with your avi now? :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oursisthefury69 Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 That doesn't make any sense. Daenerys was giving Hizdahr what he wanted, the Harpy what they wanted and the Yunkish what they wanted. No one really had a reason to kill her. Hizdahr sure is ambitious and can be quite devious, and still isn't really very smart. But despite all this I don't see him poisoning Daenerys. Daenerys was already giving him all the power. He really had no reason to kill her. Also, anyone would know Daenerys would not be very likely to eat locusts of all things. If they wanted to get to her, they would have poisoned the figs. Daenerys was likely not the target. The Shavepate is lying to get Barristan's support. Troll? Shavepate = anti-dany Hizdar = pro-dany? Typical seeing the exact opposite of the situation as a means of attempting to be unique. I'd re-read her chapters if your actually that confident Hizdar wasnt involved in the attempted poisoning. And since when does Dany have a vocal dislike for locusts lmao, what a ridiculously weak ass point. "They know she wouldnt eat those, if they wanted to get her they should have poisoned the figs" Like these arent behavioral patterns that would have been presumed, its just you reading the chapter and seeing that she ate figs and not locusts lmao. Like what do you think your bringing to the table by saying that they should have poisoned the figs? Correct thats the definition of hindsight, unless your absurd enough to have convinced yourself that you had some forelorn knowledge leading into reading the chapter the first time where you were like "if anybody ever was going to poison Dany, they'd be best off taking advantage of her proclivity for fig-feasting." Like really? or do you just not understand the concept of chronology and linear time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 What the hell's going on with your avi now? :lol: Little Aegon also wanted to be part of it, k? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Little Aegon also wanted to be part of it, k? :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Malenkirk Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 and then he (likely) tried to poison her, which would have made him de facto ruler of Mereen I'm pretty sure Hizdar got 'Tyrioned' on that one. The poisoner is likely the head 'Shavepate' who was losing power now that the Hizdar and his faction were integrating the power structure. He poisoned the locust, then used Hizdar as a patsy and played Barristan like Littlefinger played Ned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 I'm pretty sure Hizdar got 'Tyrioned' on that one. The poisoner is likely the head 'Shavepate' who was losing power now that the Hizdar and his faction were integrating the power structure. He poisoned the locust, then used Hizdar as a patsy and played Barristan like Littlefinger played Ned.I don't think it was the Shavepate. We're reminded numerous times (including the chapter before Daznaks pit) that poison is used by women, cravens, and eunuchs. The Shavepate is none of those things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimim Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 I don't think it was the Shavepate. We're reminded numerous times (including the chapter before Daznaks pit) that poison is used by women, cravens, and eunuchs. The Shavepate is none of those things....and Dornishmen lol. People don't need to fit a saying, though. idk, Hizdahr doesn't act like a poisoner. He doesn't try hard to get Dany to eat the locusts, and we're not told he had any response to Belwas chomping them down. Also, he wants to make a kid with Dany, and killing her would put an end to that hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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