The "sun's son" is a misinterpretation

[joluoto2]

I don't think it was the Shavepate. We're reminded numerous times (including the chapter before Daznaks pit) that poison is used by women, cravens, and eunuchs. The Shavepate is none of those things.

Isn't that just GRRM telling us people have silly prejudices, that cloud their mind and certainly shouldn't be taken seriously. I'm not 100% it was the Shavepate. If Hizdahr was the target, then it most likely was the Shavepate, since he would have a motive to kill Hizdahr.

However the only thing we can be sure of is that no one at that point in time had a motive to kill Daenerys. She had done exactly what her enemies wanted, and wasn't a threat to them anymore.

[Mal Malenkirk]

I don't think it was the Shavepate. We're reminded numerous times (including the chapter before Daznaks pit) that poison is used by women, cravens, and eunuchs. The Shavepate is none of those things.

We're also reminded that knights protect the inncocents.

[onceaskrull]

I'm in the camp that "sun's son = Quentyn" is a little too easy. Not to say that it's not true, but it doesn't sit quite right with me. Why is Quentyn the SON of the sun, and not a sun himself (a la the Griffin, Kraken, Lion).

I suppose agency may have something to do with it; the mummer's dragon implies that the dragon is an agent of the mummer, just like Quentyn is an agent of Doran. But unless Doran has lied to both Quentyn and Arianne, I see no hidden agenda here. So the "trust no one" seems odd. Releasing the dragons was not an issue of trust, it was stupidity and naiveté. Dany neither had to trust not distrust Quentyn in order for it to happen, she just had to reject him.

Then there's the fact that if these warnings are sequential, i.e. if the kraken comes before the lion, then the fact that the sun's son is relatively late in the sequence is significant. But if order doesn't matter, then this point is irrelevant.

But, again, I'm not saying that the sun's son is Quentyn is wrong, it's the most obvious and the most widely accepted. But I also wouldn't be surprised if Quentyn were a mislead.

[Hodor's Dragon]

It was spoken word to Dany, but George wrote "sun's son" for us.

Also, I think sun and son are pronounced slightly differently. Son is just a millimeter closer to being pronounced like sahn, whereas sun is straight-up suhn. Subtle but different.

[Nictarion]

We're also reminded that knights protect the inncocents.

I find it interesting we were reminded in the Victarion chapter directly before the attempted poisoning.

[Annara Snow]

The perfumed sensichal I had always thought was shavepate. The sons son could be aerys sons son, aegon. Quaithe said beware the griffin, but never mentioned young griff. But I still think they are probably talking about Quentin.

Why would Shavepate be the perfumed seneshal, when he's not perfumed?

[Annara Snow]

I'm in the camp that "sun's son = Quentyn" is a little too easy. Not to say that it's not true, but it doesn't sit quite right with me. Why is Quentyn the SON of the sun, and not a sun himself (a la the Griffin, Kraken, Lion).

Because "sun's son" sounds cool.

People on this forum really love to overthink everything.

[Nictarion]

People on this forum really love to overthink everything.

Indeed.

The True Detective threads were hilarious with all the wild theories being tossed around. None of which turned out true.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Little Aegon also wanted to be part of it, k?

But... But... No more blinking?

It is an adventure trying to discover what secrets your avatar holds every time :D one day he blinks, the next his hair suddenly turns blue, and now Aegon is running around...

[Skinchanging Sweetrobin]

The problem is everyone is a son and "sun" is so general. Drogo was a sun, which means Drogon could be a son's sun. Not to mention "son's son" who would be everyone.

And, yes, common tongue is exactly the same as English as songs still rhyme and the puns are the same. Impossible if only a translation.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Because "sun's son" sounds cool.

People on this forum really love to overthink everything.

Despite I believe Quaithe is trying to be as obvious as possible, I wouldn't be absolutely sure Sun's Son is Quentyn. I agree that it's definitely a Martell, which also includes Doran and in a way, Aegon if he's real. As Aegon is already the M'sD, then it's either Quentyn or Doran. I mean, I wouldn't bet on it, but I won't discard it either.

But overthinking in the way of assuming he could be, dunno, a Karstack, yeah. That's too much.

But... But... No more blinking?

It is an adventure trying to discover what secrets your avatar holds every time :D one day he blinks, the next his hair suddenly turns blue, and now Aegon is running around...

The blink will return... someday.

But yeah, static avatars are boring :D

[NorthernXY]

crap I forgot which mercenary company he belonged to lol. well i still think that daario is gonna betray the hell outta her. and that means that someone in the second sons is plotting against her too.

I'm guessing it's Barristan when he sees Ashara Dayne alive with Aegon, why else bring her up again in his POV (and create a new POV) unless to illustrate a foreshadowing. Barristan all the sudden changing allegiance through Dany's POV wouldn't make sense unless we knew that Selmy was in love with Ashara.

Sun's son is intriguing because we read it while Dany heard it. It could be Sun's sun or son's son, Sun's son, or son's Sun. I listened to the audiobooks of Harry Potter and was confused during the second book when it read "Enemies of the heir be ware" when I heard it as "Enemies of the air be ware" I got confused. It's a moot point now because Quentyn Martell is dead.

Either way Quaithe is responsible for Dany's path to madness, she is now overwhelmed by Quaithe's prophecies and is controlling nearly her every action. "Who is the next to betray me?" and so on with the other prophecies, Dany is almost a slave to them now in her mind.

Remember, the Mad King didn't start off as mad, it was a gradual process.

[oursisthefury69]

...and Dornishmen lol. People don't need to fit a saying, though. idk, Hizdahr doesn't act like a poisoner. He doesn't try hard to get Dany to eat the locusts, and we're not told he had any response to Belwas chomping them down. Also, he wants to make a kid with Dany, and killing her would put an end to that hope.

What do you mean told? You werent told by somebody on this forum? Thats not the basis for determining what actually happens in the series. Your suppose to base your knowledge on actually reading the material, not "what your told," and if you actually read the chapter you would know your post is plain wrong.

Idk what your definition of trying "hard" is but Hizdar "tried" about as much as a person can without being blatantly obvious or physically forcing them upon her. And if you read you see his response(s) both verbal and non, instead of waiting to be told what happened

[kimim]

What do you mean told? You werent told by somebody on this forum? Thats not the basis for determining what actually happens in the series. Your suppose to base your knowledge on actually reading the material, not "what your told," and if you actually read the chapter you would know your post is plain wrong.

Idk what your definition of trying "hard" is but Hizdar "tried" about as much as a person can without being blatantly obvious or physically forcing them upon her. And if you read you see his response(s) both verbal and non, instead of waiting to be told what happened

I meant "not told" by Martin to his readers.

"Hizdahr had stocked their box with flagons of chilled wine and sweetwater, with figs, dates, melons, and pomegranates, with pecans and peppers and a big bowl of honeyed locusts. Strong Belwas bellowed, 'Locusts!' as he seized the bowl and began to crunch them by the handful. 'Those are very tasty,' advised Hizdahr. 'You ought to try a few yourself, my love.'"

Dany declines, and Belwas has emptied the locust bowl by the time the second fighter kills his man. So Hizdahr asks Dany to try the bugs once, then leaves the bowl with Belwas. Seems a half-hearted poisoning attempt.

[King of Winter-ish Stuff]

If I read the quote correctly:

"The glass candles are burning. Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others. Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffin, the sun's son and the mummer's dragon.Trust none of them. Remember the Undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal."

Kraken and Dark Flame = Greyjoy & Moqorro

Lion and Griffin = Tyrion & Jon Connington

Sun's Son and Mummer's Dragon = Quentyn Martell & Young Griff (Aegon Blackfyre)

The Perfumed Seneschal is probably Varys.

The perfumed Seneschal is Archmaester Marwyn. He is, in fact, on his way to see Dany right now. And Varys is not.

[Mal Malenkirk]

What do you mean told? You werent told by somebody on this forum? Thats not the basis for determining what actually happens in the series. Your suppose to base your knowledge on actually reading the material, not "what your told," and if you actually read the chapter you would know your post is plain wrong.

Idk what your definition of trying "hard" is but Hizdar "tried" about as much as a person can without being blatantly obvious or physically forcing them upon her. And if you read you see his response(s) both verbal and non, instead of waiting to be told what happened

You really think that if Hizdar wanted to kill Dany he would hand her the poison himself? And then once she refused he would just leave the poisoned locust unattended while he stays calmly in the vicinity until things predictibaly blow up in his face?

If we assume he is tied to the sons ofthe harpy, then he has access to a a legion of assassins! If he wanted Dany dead, he would use any of the guerilla fighter from the SoH to do the deed while he stays somewhere safe, like Littlefinger would.

What happened to Hizdar is the exact same thing that happened to Tyrion except we don't have his POV to disculp him. And if the Shavepate is the real culrpit, he manipulated Barristan like Littlefinger manipulated Ned.

It's a really elegant parallel from the author, when you think about it.

[VivaVictarion2]

The argument could be made that it was written that way for us to understand Dany's interpretation of what Quaithe said.

For instance, in the fabulous and not at all age-inappropriate Westing Game, the word "none" is spoken, while inside the thoughts of another, it's written "nun." And we're automatically in Dany's head during this.

Oh man, nice plug for the Westing Game. I used to have that audiobook when I was a kid. Got me through many a miserable family vacation. :crying:

Anywho, I still think there's room for the SUN'S SON to be someone other then Prince Quentyn. I mean if it were Hizzy, than yeh that's definately someone she should would want to beware.

[King of Vaes Tolorro]

If I read the quote correctly:

"The glass candles are burning. Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others. Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffin, the sun's son and the mummer's dragon.Trust none of them. Remember the Undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal."

Kraken and Dark Flame = Greyjoy & Moqorro

Lion and Griffin = Tyrion & Jon Connington

Sun's Son and Mummer's Dragon = Quentyn Martell & Young Griff (Aegon Blackfyre)

The Perfumed Seneschal is probably Varys.

:bowdown: :agree: :thumbsup:

[King of Vaes Tolorro]

The perfumed Seneschal is Archmaester Marwyn. He is, in fact, on his way to see Dany right now. And Varys is not.

Is Marwyn perfumed? Perfume seems to be Varys' main description, people can''t identify him without it. Senschal's are hollow, like Varys.

Finally, Varys is very much intertwined with Daenerys.

[Ghost's Shadow]

But... But... No more blinking?

It is an adventure trying to discover what secrets your avatar holds every time :D one day he blinks, the next his hair suddenly turns blue, and now Aegon is running around...

Despite my 'stop blinking at me', I miss it, too. ;)