Illyrio's Dragon Eggs

[Balerion's Whiskers]

Regardless of where they came from, if Illyrio had any clue that these eggs could be hatched, none of those kids would have ever seen them.

I agree with everyone who thinks that his explanation was a bit too convenient too. And I think it is more likely that they came from King's Landing rather than Dragonstone simply because of Varys knowledge. The deep tunnels that Tyrion and Shae were led through with the dragon mosaic on the floor and the dragon brazier gives us a hint that there's more down there than just dungeons.

[And Stannis Laughed]

:agree:

[Lost Melnibonean]

"His attempts to bring forth dragons from eggs found in the depths of Dragonstone

(some so old that they had turned to stone) yielded naught, however.

Aerys II, TWOIAF

This suggests that what Illyrio told Daenerys about the origin of the thre eggs he gave her was true. It could also be used to argue that Aerys was aware of the dragons from stone prophecy.

[RumHam]

"His attempts to bring forth dragons from eggs found in the depths of Dragonstone

(some so old that they had turned to stone) yielded naught, however.

Aerys II, TWOIAF

This suggests that what Illyrio told Daenerys about the origin of the thre eggs he gave her was true.

I had the opposite interpretation. That to me suggest that Illyrio lied, and Varys stole these eggs during the sack and some of them ended up with Daenerys.

[Lost Melnibonean]

I had the opposite interpretation. That to me suggest that Illyrio lied, and Varys stole these eggs during the sack and some of them ended up with Daenerys.

But even with your interpretation, the quote suggests that dragon eggs take time to petrify before turning to stone. If Daenerys's eggs were so old that that they petrified into stone--that they were stone is a given, right? --then what difference does it make where they came from and why would Illyrio lie about it? The only reason their origin matters is if Daenerys's dragons are the offspring of the dragons we know of since Balerion.

[RumHam]

But even with your interpretation, the quote suggests that dragon eggs take time to petrify before turning to stone. If Daenerys's eggs were so old that that they petrified into stone--that they were stone is a given, right? --then what difference does it make where they came from and why would Illyrio lie about it? The only reason their origin matters is if Daenerys's dragons are the offspring of the dragons we know of since Balerion.

Oh I was assuming they were just old Targaryen eggs and that they were from the offspring of Balerion, his offspring or one of the other four dragons that came with him and died. I don't think dragon eggs take that long to petrify. The Butterwell egg is described as very similar to Daenerys' and there's no reason to think it was ancient.

[Lullipop]

I can see the logic in the eggs being stolen Targaryen eggs, but the possiblity of dragons in Asshai is what give me forces to keep living morning after morning.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I had the opposite interpretation. That to me suggest that Illyrio lied, and Varys stole these eggs during the sack and some of them ended up with Daenerys.

I agree with this. As soon as I read that bit it seemed clear to me that Dany's eggs were probably the stone eggs from Dragonstone. I never did buy the "they came from Asshai" thing, and WoIaF validated that opinion.

[Lord Freypie]

The interesting question IMO is why is he giving those eggs to Daenerys, not to (f)Aegon (who even if Blackfyre should have targ blood) or Viserys.

Seems to imply Illyrio has some magical/prophetic knowledge and knows she will be the mother of dragons.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

The interesting question IMO is why is he giving those eggs to Daenerys, not to (f)Aegon (who even if Blackfyre should have targ blood) or Viserys.

Seems to imply Illyrio has some magical/prophetic knowledge and knows she will be the mother of dragons.

You have no idea what Illyrio have Aegon or what he is planning to give him.

If Illyrio had any frigging clue that Dany would hatch these eggs, why would he knowingly send her off with them? What good is it if she hatches the eggs if he can't benefit from keeping the hatchlings? He had no idea that they would hatch and any assertion to the contrary is based solely on hindsight, due to specific events that neither Illyrio nor Varys had any way to control.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

I had the opposite interpretation. That to me suggest that Illyrio lied, and Varys stole these eggs during the sack and some of them ended up with Daenerys.

I agree with this.

It also leaves the possibility that it had been the plan to give Aegon his own eggs as well, though perhaps they might think about this twice now that Dany has hatched all three eggs.

[RumHam]

I agree with this.

It also leaves the possibility that it had been the plan to give Aegon his own eggs as well, though perhaps they might think about this twice now that Dany has hatched all three eggs.

Yeah because now if they give him one and it doesn't hatch, people will take that as proof he's a fraud.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Yeah because now if they give him one and it doesn't hatch, people will take that as proof he's a fraud.

Not only that (the egg of Viserys II never hatched, they could argue that, though, I admit, if Aegon was given an egg that didn't hatch, people would certainly use that against him), but they can't simply give him one.. Then he's got one, and Dany three. No, they want Aegon to be king, and thus, he would need at least the same amount of eggs (to hatch) as Dany, if they don't feel he needs more.

So then you have six dragons... Who's going to ride them? There are only two Targs (as far as Illyrio and Varys are aware), and there already three dragons. I doubt that Illyrio and Varys would want to risk anyone else acquiring a dragon, as that could lead to whoever acquiring that dragon getting idea's of belonging on the throne him/herself (like the Two Betrayers).

[Facebookless Man]

Interesting, as that is where Mirri Maz Duur learned. It's thought that her sorcery was a key component of Danaerys being able to hatch dragons and have temporary immunity to fire (which Targs don't normally have; just a high tolerance for heat)

People keep repeating this nonsense when GRRM clearly stated it was Daenerys who performed the magic.

[Lord Freypie]

You have no idea what Illyrio have Aegon or what he is planning to give him.

Why make her a gift of such value if she wasn't supposed to hatch them ? Why did he buy eggs to give for a wedding when he could have bought an army for Viserys or Aegon with the money ?

He had 3 eggs and 3 targs he was aware off (Viserys, Dany, Aegon), why not give one to each (or all to Viserys the elder of the family, or all to Aegon the best claimant) ?

There aren't many possible logical reasons I see,

- he had the idea they would be more safe with Dany (not in the hands of Viserys who would likely have sold them to recruit mercenaries, and protected by a khalazar rather than a river boat) ; but it was hardly important to keep them if they were supposed to stay useless ; also he could have just hidden them himself

- he has a dozen eggs and could afford giving 3 for no reason to the future wife of some savage being just a pawn in his plan ; I rather believe they are rare

- he had the idea that Dany was the most likely to succeed to hatch them and then deliver their mounts to the two other heads

If Illyrio had any frigging clue that Dany would hatch these eggs, why would he knowingly send her off with them?

Because her hatching eggs in Pentos may not be the best idea. He needed the khalazar to protect her and be sure not to draw attention on him / see a coalition form against his city when the dragons were young.

What good is it if she hatches the eggs if he can't benefit from keeping the hatchlings?

Possibly because he was thinking he knew and considered as his pawns the "last" two other alive targaryans. Given time Dany would have naturally delivered dragons herself to the ones able to be their masters, Viserys and Aegon, who were already in Illyrio's deck. There was no necessity of more control, as Dany was going to be searching 2 other riders.

He had no idea that they would hatch and any assertion to the contrary is based solely on hindsight, due to specific events that neither Illyrio nor Varys had any way to control.

It's your theory based on a very reductive idea of those characters making them just less interesting versions of Littlefinger, Doran or Tywin. In mine Varys/Ilyrio goals are not just to crown Aegon for the pleasure of it, but to put on the throne their PTWP with all the tools needed to win the battle of Dawn. Unlike other schemers they are connected to the magical/prophetic side of Planetos and have plans going further than winning the game of thrones.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Why make her a gift of such value if she wasn't supposed to hatch them ? Why did he buy eggs to give for a wedding when he could have bought an army for Viserys or Aegon with the money ?

Weren't the eggs exchanged in the Dothraki fashion for Illyrio's role in brokering the marriage contract? Daenerys tells us that he could afford to be lavish since he received a fortune in horses and slaves.