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Django

(TWoIaF Spoilers) Bloodraven

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couldnt help but notice in the picture thet eggs son Duncan has black hair and his other brothers do not

I thought about that too. Egg's Grandmother is a Martell, his mother is a Dayne and his wife is Black Betha Blackwood. His uncle Baelor also has black hair, but none of Daeron II's other children do.

Also interesting he marries a Blackwood and sends Bloodraven to the wall for that matter.

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I like Egg sending Bloodraven to the Wall and dealing out justice because what Bloodraven did was sneaky and wrong but I also got why he did it.

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It's completely in character for him from what we know of him, though. (I'm going by Dunk & Egg and the main series, I still ddon't have TWOIAF.) I always got the impression that he was the kind of guy who didn't care for the notions of honor or for his reputation, and whose attitude was basically: "I'm not winning any popularity contests, people already hate me for what I am, what I look like and what I can do, so I'll just do all the dirty work to keep good, smart men like my beloved brother and my nephew on the throne and defend them from these idiots and their attempts to start another civil war."

That's what makes him an interesting and grey character. I think he is working "for the greater good" (even more so) now, but he is pretty ruthless. Though how ruthless, I'm not sure. There aren't that many characters in the series with that ruthless mentality who are motivated by what they see as a greater good and not just their birthright or family pride/status or revenge or glory or other personal reasons etc. Melisandre is another one, but BR probably knows much better what's going on than she does. Varys claims he's like that, but it seems very questionable at this point.

This makes Bloodraven more similar Jon than Tywin

What he did is similar to Jon in his espionage and assassination missions

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It's short term expediency, but horrible in the long run. The entire social stability of Westeros depends on people keeping their oaths. If everyone can make promises and blatantly violate them when it suits them, then the entire society will fall apart. It's the same crap that Aerion pulls, how you can you discuss peace terms with an enemy if people who surrender can't be guaranteed safety, it makes peace treaties impossible and assures that people will always fight to the last men.



Now I'm really rooting for the Varys and FAegon are both Blackfyres theory because I think the Blackfyres deserve some payback to the the Targs.

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It's short term expediency, but horrible in the long run. The entire social stability of Westeros depends on people keeping their oaths. If everyone can make promises and blatantly violate them when it suits them, then the entire society will fall apart. It's the same crap that Aerion pulls, how you can you discuss peace terms with an enemy if people who surrender can't be guaranteed safety, it makes peace treaties impossible and assures that people will always fight to the last men.

Now I'm really rooting for the Varys and FAegon are both Blackfyres theory because I think the Blackfyres deserve some payback to the the Targs.

There is only one targ left. Besides, I think Varys could care less about such things. Illyrio too. Hell Illyrio pokes fun at the whole concept of getting behind animal banners. Leads me to believe that Aegon is neither Targ nor Blackfyre.

As for Bloodraven, I do see what you are saying. It's true, but just like Tywin...I think Bloodraven wanted it to end. He is very pragmatic and just like the Reins of Castamere he wanted to make sure it didnt happen again

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Yep, the new Bloodraven info was a megaton! Particularly since it seems that there was a reconciliation between him and Maekar in 219 and that he continued as Hand until Egg's ascension. Also, that it was Egg, the one whom BR had put on the throne (and groomed during the intervening years?), who sentenced him to death and sent him to the Wall. I really, really hope that GRRM writes about it in the [email protected] stories, because so much juicy drama and intrigue!

As to Bloodraven's execution of Aenys Blackfyre, IMHO it is a testimony as to how unpopular a candidate for kingship Egg was among the nobility. I am pretty sure that BR broke his safe-conduct pledge and executed Aenys, because he saw him as a genuine threat to Egg being chosen.

Also, Bittersteel, and Brackens in general, continue to be scumbags. I assume that Bittersteel's ship to the Wall was given no military escort, because normally a pledge to join NW, even when given under duress, is considered to be irrevocable. Still, one would have thought that Bloodraven had a suspicious enough mind to make sure.

Oh, and the whole thing with Lord Bracken prostituting his daughters to the king is just revolting. Poor, poor Bethany!

Also, it seems that Melissa Blackwood had a really good relationship with Daeron and Naerys, so it is no wonder that Brynden has been loyal to Daeron. I have always hoped that Daeron was "a brother I loved", but now I am sure. I do wonder what happened to BR's sisters, though.

And the small info that Shiera Seastar was allegedly helping Bloodraven with his spying is very intriguing indeed. I really wish that there would have been more about her...

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I liked how Melissa had good relations with everyone at court, Naerys, Aemon and Daeron included. And Daeron now definitly seems to have been the brother that Brynden loved.



As to his sisters.. Perhaps the Faith? Or married off to knights at the Red Keep? Or Dragonstone?


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I liked how Melissa had good relations with everyone at court, Naerys, Aemon and Daeron included. And Daeron now definitly seems to have been the brother that Brynden loved.

As to his sisters.. Perhaps the Faith? Or married off to knights at the Red Keep? Or Dragonstone?

Whatever their fate, they somehow were not significant enough to be included in the Great Bastards roster.

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Whatever their fate, they somehow were not significant enough to be included in the Great Bastards roster.

Is is possible that all the children listed on Aegon's mistresses pages are counted ar Great Bastards, yet we've only learned about the four most important ones in the main series/D&E's?

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I like even more Bloodraven. I think he knew the consequences but did what he deemed best for the Targaryen dynasty. He took it all on him, helped put Egg on the Throne, and was sentenced to death for his crime.

This guy is just great. The picture about the Second Blackfyre Rebellion is awesome also. Bloodraven with his pale skin and the big hood ;)

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My take on Shiera:



She was captured by Bittersteel and sold into slavery during (or before the Third Blackfyre Rebellion), along with her and Bloodraven's young daughter, Melony.


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Surely not! Because if that had been the case, Bloodraven would have taken Bittersteel apart, bit by tiny bit, Aerys I' mercy or no. Nor do I see Shiera refusing marriage to BR, just to bear him a bastard. Also, I kinda hope that Shiera was good for more than fridging, ahem.

No, IMHO Shiera is Quaithe. It would make sense. She was a reputed sorceress, the same as BR, and we know that _he_ was the real stuff, so why shouldn't his lover and apparently helper re: spying also be? And Asshai is some kind of Mekka for sorcerers, so it would be logical for her to go there to continue and deepen her studies, either after BR's banishment to the Wall or even earlier. There would be a beautiful symmetry in both of them still working to protect Westeros against the Long Night, albeit in undead-ish states.

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Well, Shiera could be Quaithe and Mel could be her daughter.



And we could put this enslavement scenario simply put after the Third Rebellion. Another possibility is that Bloodraven did not yet know at that point what happened to Shiera. And why should Shiera not bear a child? Her refusal to marry has, most likely, to do with her wish to remain independent and subservient to her Lord Husband.


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Also, it seems that Melissa Blackwood had a really good relationship with Daeron and Naerys, so it is no wonder that Brynden has been loyal to Daeron. I have always hoped that Daeron was "a brother I loved", but now I am sure. I do wonder what happened to BR's sisters, though.

You and I have always argued that this was the case, IIRC. Good to have this one confirmed almost directly (but then, it cannot be truly directly, can it? It's a maester's work about the hearts of people long gone.)

Looks like being a decent person could take you far with Daeron and Naerys.

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Missy was known to be loved by Naerys, Daeron, and the Dragonknight for her kind heart, and her charity work. They did get along quite well, and it is explicitly stated that this is how Bloodraven could always maintain close ties to court, even after Missy was discarded.



Bittersteel, on the other hand, grew up at Stone Hedge, after Barbra was sent back there. And later on, he even lost his maternal grandfather when Aegon IV executed both Bethany and Bethany and Barbra's father.


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Missy was known to be loved by Naerys, Daeron, and the Dragonknight for her kind heart, and her charity work. They did get along quite well, and it is explicitly stated that this is how Bloodraven could always maintain close ties to court, even after Missy was discarded.

Bittersteel, on the other hand, grew up at Stone Hedge, after Barbra was sent back there. And later on, he even lost his maternal grandfather when Aegon IV executed both Bethany and Bethany and Barbra's father.

Probably grew up with lots of brainwashing, as well. After all, Barbra's father did not hide his plans to marry her to the king. In fact, it was those blatant ambitions that led to Barbra's downfall.

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