Stannis's Lawyer Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 But he wouldn't have the best claim anymoreDude, the Targ claim is about as dead as the Rowan claim to Highgarden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTyrion Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I was thinking more along the lines of a son of Robert who's been sailing the world for years (before even AGoK starts), and happens to have signed legitimization papers in his pocket Signed by who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Freypie Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 IMO Stannis has (a small chance) to step aside only in one case : he become convinced that whoever he has to abdicate for is the prophetized king (AA etc) that will save the realm.It would be in line with what he always said, that he wanted the crown only out of duty.He'd still insist for his line to keep Storm's End of course, and may also demand to have his daughter married to royal family to accept that (Aegon or Jon/Shireen shipper someone ? :) ).. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m'lady Melisandre Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 For arguments sake, say Aegon ends up on the throne once the Lannisters are out of the Red Keep. That would mean Stannis is no longer has the rightful claim to the throne. Do you think he would stand aside for the rightful Targaryen family to continue their rule, or would he usurp? Since his whole claim has been about him having the best claim, surely he would stand aside. Thoughts? The throne rightfully belongs to Baratheon family now. For anyone to take the throne, they would have to steal it from Stannis. That is, they are playing the usurpers/traitors just as much Baratheon played in respect to the Targaryens. Stannis would not bend the knee to an usurper, and an usurper can not claim to be the new King unless he bans Stannis from Westeros or kills him. Thus, Stannis will not bend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferocious Veldt Roarer Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 The throne rightfully belongs to Baratheon family now. For anyone to take the throne, they would have to steal it from Stannis. How the hell can they steal it from Stannis, if Stannis hasn't managed to get it in the first place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis's Lawyer Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 How the hell can they steal it from Stannis, if Stannis hasn't managed to get it in the first place? If Thief A steals your watch, and Thief B steals the watch from Thief A, Thief B is stealing your watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferocious Veldt Roarer Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Stannis would never bend the knee, especially to a newcomer. I don't see how he lost his claim after Aegon appeared to be honest. the Targaryens are no longer the kings of the throne, since it was conquered (or usurped, whatever) by House Baratheon. Let's say if Aegon conquers the throne, Stannis will be in the same position that Aegon is now, trying to retake the throne for his family. Dunno what the "if" is doing here. Stannis actually is in the same position now. It's not as if Stannis is any closer to the throne. The opposite, actually, at least Faegon is in the right geographical area. And I'll be genuinely surprised if the numbers who willingly flock under his banners won't soon exceed those who voluntarily declare for Stannis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raving Stark the Mad Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 But he wouldn't have the best claim anymore Stannis is brother to (in his eyes) the last legitimate king, who died hunting. Aegon is grandson to the next previous king, who was overthrown for being insane. Baratheon policy is to deny the claims of Targaryens and exterminate them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Señor de la Tormenta Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Who would have given Stannis the fiercest fight, the toddler or the babe? Sorry but my bad english doesnt allow me to follow your probably clever show. I stay in my point. Stannis laid siege and forced a clear targaryen heir to ran away from westeros. Why would he think different of aegon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammermen's Revolt Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Signed by who? Theoretically, I think in this scenario it would be signed by Robert, in clearly Roberts handwriting, with Roberts seal, and with the seals of the Pope of R'hollorism, the head of the Citadel, Donal Noye, Jon Arryn, Steffon Baratheon, the Iron Bank and all the Stormlords apart from Stannis,attached as witnesses. Would he bend? It's the only case I might see him bend. But still unlikely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 For arguments sake, say Aegon ends up on the throne once the Lannisters are out of the Red Keep. That would mean Stannis is no longer has the rightful claim to the throne. Do you think he would stand aside for the rightful Targaryen family to continue their rule, or would he usurp? Since his whole claim has been about him having the best claim, surely he would stand aside. Thoughts? Never. Usurp? Now I understand where you stand.So it comes down to whether Stannis believes Aegons legitimacy? Poppycocks. No matter who Aegon is Stannis is Robert's heir and he is the legitimate King.Just like Dany isn't the rightful heir at the moment And she will never be because she is a woman.But he wouldn't have the best claim anymoreRobert was the King so Stannis will always have the best claim.If he ain't the rightful heir, I believe he would step down Why do you think that someone would give a second ef about the Targs?But he says he is only going for it because he is the rightful heir. Would be go further than that and go for it no matter who sits on the IT? He is the rightful heir. He is Robert's heir. He will never bend the knee. He will fight to the bitter end and then some. Dude, the Targ claim is about as dead as the Rowan claim to Highgarden.QFT. Even if it isn't it's most likely that Stannis comes before Dany anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roose on the Loose Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 The word missing from this thread is attainder. Legalistically the descendants of the attainted have no claim to any seat. Tommen attainted Tyrion and I think Stannis. I don't think it's in the text, but presumably Robert would have attainted the Mad King. So if you believe in the legitimacy of Robert's Rebellion, then Dany and Aegon are smallfolk. If Aerys wasn't attainted, "King" Stannis could do it tomorrow. People can rationalize anything. In this case it's not even that hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis's Lawyer Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 The word missing from this thread is attainder. Legalistically the descendants of the attainted have no claim to any seat. Tommen attainted Tyrion and I think Stannis. I don't think it's in the text, but presumably Robert would have attainted the Mad King. So if you believe in the legitimacy of Robert's Rebellion, then Dany and Aegon are smallfolk. If Aerys wasn't attainted, "King" Stannis could do it tomorrow. People can rationalize anything. In this case it's not even that hard. 1. Tommen is not a real king so his laws mean nothing. 2. There is no need to say "King" and not King. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoamingRonin Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Sorry but my bad english doesnt allow me to follow your probably clever show. I stay in my point. Stannis laid siege and forced a clear targaryen heir to ran away from westeros. Why would he think different of aegon? It was actually a quote from the books. As usual, something Stannis has done is being blown out of proportion. He did not lay siege to Dragonstone. The Targaryen fleet was destroyed by a storm. A majority of the remaining Targ loyalist plotted to give Daenerys and Viserys to Stannis when they learned he was coming. Of course Dany and Viserys fled, they were children. Perhaps Viserys could have challenged Stannis to single combat. But yeah, I agree. He'll break before he bends. He's not going to give in to any Targaryen claimant. The people that think he'd kneel to Jon are deluding themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarah.jenice Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 IMO Stannis has (a small chance) to step aside only in one case : he become convinced that whoever he has to abdicate for is the prophetized king (AA etc) that will save the realm. It would be in line with what he always said, that he wanted the crown only out of duty. He'd still insist for his line to keep Storm's End of course, and may also demand to have his daughter married to royal family to accept that (Aegon or Jon/Shireen shipper someone ? :) ).. I agree. Mel says the realm must be united behinds its one true king to win the true war against the dark. Stannis is not only driven by the fact that he's Robert's heir but also by the fact that Mel has said he is this prophesied king who will save Westeros. If she retracts with Stannis and proclaims someone else is AAR, like Jon Snow perhaps, then I could see Stannis following him. He will never bend the knee for a Targaryen just because of who they are though. Their house lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 IMO Stannis has (a small chance) to step aside only in one case : he become convinced that whoever he has to abdicate for is the prophetized king (AA etc) that will save the realm. It would be in line with what he always said, that he wanted the crown only out of duty. He'd still insist for his line to keep Storm's End of course, and may also demand to have his daughter married to royal family to accept that (Aegon or Jon/Shireen shipper someone ? :) ).. Sorry but the prophecy doesn't speak for a King. AAR doesn't have to be a King to save the world. So no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
titanx5 Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I know this is true, I watched the interview where he said it just a bit ago but what an odd statement to make. I dont see the connection, and even where I could stretch and say I do I think it was odd statement to make. I mean just look at the Tiberius official description from the show - " the son of Livia and her first husband; Claudius' uncle. Tiberius is violent and antagonististic. Although he chafes under his mother's rule, he is manipulated by Livia almost as often as Augustus. After he is forced to divorce his first wife in order to marry Julia, all of Tiberius' good qualities disappear, and he becomes even more of a "bad apple" on the Claudian family tree. As emperor, he begins to display a propensity for bizarre pornography and exhibit many depraved sexual tendencies."Where is the Stannis in that? I will admit that I have not watched the show, but from that I can see a couple things that are similar to Stannis.Stannis does condemn a number of people to violent deaths, and he is an antagonist to most of the POVs. He was always said to be unpleasant before Melisandre, and after he met her, he begins to condone the burning of septs, godswoods, and weirwoods.Another thing, Tiberius from that series is said to desperately want the love of his people, and I have speculated before that Stannis's true motivation is to finally step out of the shadow of his brothers and be appreciated for his actions. Tiberius is desribed as being a great military general but reclusive, dull, and never really wanted to be emperor, that sounds a lot like Stannis, obviously there is a bit of Richard III in him. Plus Tiberius was not particularly loved by the people. So there is a lot of similarities between Stannis and Tiberius But back to the OP, why would Stannis let some pretender take the IT, that is his by right? He knows the Lannisters rule the IT, show even if some Targ pretender takes the IT, that will not stop him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m'lady Melisandre Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 How the hell can they steal it from Stannis, if Stannis hasn't managed to get it in the first place? It rightfully belongs to him. The throne was taken by Robert Baratheon, and Stannis is his only and legitimate heir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Señor de la Tormenta Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 It was actually a quote from the books. As usual, something Stannis has done is being blown out of proportion. He did not lay siege to Dragonstone. The Targaryen fleet was destroyed by a storm. A majority of the remaining Targ loyalist plotted to give Daenerys and Viserys to Stannis when they learned he was coming. Of course Dany and Viserys fled, they were children. Perhaps Viserys could have challenged Stannis to single combat. But yeah, I agree. He'll break before he bends. He's not going to give in to any Targaryen claimant. The people that think he'd kneel to Jon are deluding themselves. I defeated your uncle Victarion and his Iron Fleet off Fair Isle, the first time your father crowned himself. I held Storm's End against the power of the Reach for a year, and took Dragonstone from the Targaryens. I smashed Mance Rayder at the Wall, though he had twenty times my numbers. Tell me, turncloak, what battles has the Bastard of Bolton ever won that I should fear him? Davos could make out Fury well to the southeast, her sails shimmering golden as they came down, the crowned stag of Baratheon blazoned on the canvas. From her decks Stannis Baratheon had commanded the assault on Dragonstone sixteen years before And anyway, you are obiusly messing with me. The point is not if the little dragons were or were not there when he attacked. The point to the thread is he was agressive to a targaryen heir as good as aegon. yet you started to nickpick when I said Targaryens got to ran from him when is actually what they did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis's Lawyer Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I will admit that I have not watched the show, but from that I can see a couple things that are similar to Stannis.Stannis does condemn a number of people to violent deaths, and he is an antagonist to most of the POVs. He was always said to be unpleasant before Melisandre, and after he met her, he begins to condone the burning of septs, godswoods, and weirwoods.Another thing, Tiberius from that series is said to desperately want the love of his people, and I have speculated before that Stannis's true motivation is to finally step out of the shadow of his brothers and be appreciated for his actions.The fuck? Stannis condemns people to violent deaths, just like Ned, or Jon, or Tyrion, or Arya, or pretty much anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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