There are no other dragons on Planetos besides Drogon, Viserion and Rhaegal

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Surprise twist? Quite a common thing in literature.

And I'm not sure how many people share you opinion that if it turns out other dragons exist, the first five books have been bullshit! There have been clues dropped here and there that there could be other dragons, and clearly several of us are leaning to the "there might be a dragon under Winterfell or on Skagos" beliefs.

Not what I meant, having all the characters be incorrect and just spouting lies over and over to the reader is what would make them bullshit.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

What is that proof?

to Asshai by the Shadow, where dragons stirred beneath the sunrise.

Not what I meant, having all the characters be incorrect and just spouting lies over and over to the reader is what would make them bullshit.

I think that there is a difference between lie and mistake. Not knowing something is making a mistake, knowing something and saying something different is a lie.

[Archmaester Drew]

"They were the last of the Targaryen dragons anywhere, and they had not lived very long." Tyrion GOT

"As Daenerys Targaryen rose to her feet, her black hissed, pale smoke venting from its mouth and nostrils. The other two pulled away from her breasts and added their voices to the call, translucent wings unfolding and stirring the air, and for the first time in hundreds of years, the night came alive with the music of dragons." -got

George_RR_Martin: Granny, thanks for asking that. It gives me a chance to clear up a common misconception. TARGARYENS ARE NOT IMMUNE TO FIRE! The birth of Dany's dragons was unique, magical, wonderous, a miracle. She is called The Unburnt because she walked into the flames and lived. But her brother sure as hell wasn't immune to that molten gold.

"I will kill every Targaryen I get my hands on, until they are as dead as their dragons, and then I will piss on their graves."--Bobby B.

"They were the last of the Targaryen dragons, perhaps the last dragons anywhere, and they had not lived very long."--Tyrion

"Dragons" Tyrion told him.

"What good is that? there are no more dragons,"

"I seldom dream of dragons anymore, there are no more dragons." --Tyrion

"Stone, she told herself. They are only stone, even Illyrio said so, the dragons are all dead." --Dany

"Have you ever seen a dragon?" She asked Irri.......

"Dragons are gone, Khaleesi"

"Dead, Long and long ago"--Irri and Jhiqui to Dany.

"Viserys had told her that the last dragon had died no more than a century and half ago, during the reign of Aegon III, who was called Dragonbane.

"Everywhere?" she said, disappointed. "Even in the East?"

"No Dragon, Brave men kill them, for dragon terrible evil beasts. It is known."

"it is known."

Quaithe, who is from Asshai (where it is argued dragons are), referred to the dragons as "the wonder that has been born into the world again." She says "born into the world again," meaning there were none in existence before the eggs hatched.

"Who do you think killed all the dragons the last time around? Gallant dragonslayers armed with swords?" He spat. "The world the citadel is building has no place for sorcery or prophecy or glass candles, much less for dragons."--Marwyn

"yet I have sailed farther than any of them. Only one living kraken has never known defeat..only one has sailed to Asshai by the shadow, and seen wonders and terrors beyond."

"If you liked the shadow so well, go back there,"

".....I say take all Westeros."

"Crow's Eye," Asha called, "did you leave your wits at Asshai? If we cannot hold the north--and we cannot--how can we win the whole of the 7K?"

"Why it has been done before......Victarion, our brother's daughter has never heard of Aegon the Conqueror, it would seem."

"Aegon? what has the Conqueror to do with us?"

"I know as much of war as you do, Crow's Eye, Aegon Targaryen conquered Westeros with dragons."

"And so shall we. That horn you heard I found amongst the smoking ruins of Valyria, where no man has dared to walk but me. It is a dragon horn, ......The dragonlords of old sounded such horns, before the Doom devoured them. With this horn, I can bind dragons to my will."

"A horn to bind goats to your will would be of more use, Crow's Eye. There are no more dragons."

"Again girl, you are wrong. There are three, and I know where to find them."

Just a recap of some characters who, according to some, are completely incorrect about the planet they live on. There are a boat-load of more examples.

The follow up question, which I realise may be something you keep for the books, is what happened to the Dragons out of Westeros? If I understood correctly, the Alchemists say that there were no more Dragons anywhere. Was that so?

There are no more dragons known to exist... but this is a medieval period, and large parts of the world are still terra incognita, so there are always tales of dragon sightings in far off mysterious places. The maesters tend to discount those.

All hearsay; none of this is admissible evidence. It is all from the subjective perspective of characters (and some are just reiterating hearsay themselves!). :)

[TallTyrion]

to Asshai by the Shadow, where dragons stirred beneath the sunrise.

OK in that same vision Bran says there is A Giant with stone Armour with black blood for a head standing above Ned and the King.

"A giant in armour made of stone, but when he opened his visor there was nothing inside but darkness and thick black blood."

One paragraph before the Asshai line. Why take the Dragons as literally true and not that?

[Suzanna Stormborn]

to Asshai by the Shadow, where dragons stirred beneath the sunrise.

yeah a Coma dream is all the proof she has. Nothing when anyone is awake? Too much to ask for? did you see my post #265? Do you think this 'coma evidence' outweighs that?

[Suzanna Stormborn]

All hearsay; none of this is admissible evidence. It is all from the subjective perspective of characters (and some are just reiterating hearsay themselves!). :)

Ok then everything you have said is also heresay and not valid at all, so I guess there is no point to discussion :)

[LordManderlyAsDragonRider]

Not what I meant, having all the characters be incorrect and just spouting lies over and over to the reader is what would make them bullshit.

So Maester Luwin is a bullshit character cause he tells Bran there are no more Children of the Forest? Or is he is liar? Or maybe he is just telling Bran - and us - what HE believes to be the truth..

[Jon's Queen Consort]

OK in that same vision Bran says there is A Giant with stone Armour with black blood for a head standing above Ned and the King.

Yes so? He saw it. The only one PoV who was able to be sure about what he told saw it. None of those who have said that there are no more dragons have been to Asshai, Eyron only claims to, and the WOIAF pretty much proves that there are dragons there. If no one was there how they can know the truth?

yeah a Coma dream is all the proof she has. Nothing when anyone is awake? Too much to ask for? did you see my post #265? Do you think this 'coma evidence' outweighs that?

You mean that chunk of text made of quotes by people who have never been to Asshai? Yea I have seen it. I will prefer to what the demigod who have actually see Asshai and what twoiaf said tho.

[Nictarion]

All hearsay; none of this is admissible evidence. It is all from the subjective perspective of characters (and some are just reiterating hearsay themselves!). :)

"As Daenerys Targaryen rose to her feet, her black hissed, pale smoke venting from its mouth and nostrils. The other two pulled away from her breasts and added their voices to the call, translucent wings unfolding and stirring the air, and for the first time in hundreds of years, the night came alive with the music of dragons." -got

This is not a characters opinion, or hearsay, it's the author directly telling us a fact.

[Mrs_Darcy]

I am certain I will be told this is somehow incorrect as well, as all my quotes from the books seem to be wrong, but;

"yet I have sailed farther than any of them. Only one living kraken has never known defeat..only one has sailed to Asshai by the shadow, and seen wonders and terrors beyond."

"If you liked the shadow so well, go back there,"

".....I say take all Westeros."

"Crow's Eye," Asha called, "did you leave your wits at Asshai? If we cannot hold the north--and we cannot--how can we win the whole of the 7K?"

"Why it has been done before......Victarion, our brother's daughter has never heard of Aegon the Conqueror, it would seem."

"Aegon? what has the Conqueror to do with us?"

"I know as much of war as you do, Crow's Eye, Aegon Targaryen conquered Westeros with dragons."

"And so shall we. That horn you heard I found amongst the smoking ruins of Valyria, where no man has dared to walk but me. It is a dragon horn, ......The dragonlords of old sounded such horns, before the Doom devoured them. With this horn, I can bind dragons to my will."

"A horn to bind goats to your will would be of more use, Crow's Eye. There are no more dragons."

"Again girl, you are wrong. There are three, and I know where to find them."

Now please tell me that Asha and Euron both also have no idea what they are talking about.....

Or could anyone please tell me what is the purpose of making every single main character a liar?

Are there any reasons, because I sort of feel like I am being argued at only for the sake of arguing.......

I am not saying, that these people are liars, but that there are places (like the Isle of Faces, Skagos, North of the Wall, etc.), where even Ironborn do not go. Neither Victarion nor Euron or Asha ever said that they went to Skagos (which seems like a poor place, so no big plunder) and even if someone of them sailed near to Skagos, the island has a really big hinterland.

Neither of these three is omniscient, so they are no liars, they just do not know it any better. The only persons I would really believe if he/she said, that Daenerys has the only three dragons are people who either have glass-candles (like Marwyn the Mage) or Rhllor-followers who see visions in the flames (excluding Melisandre, because she is quite bad at interpreting them).

Additionally, the people in this thread do not claim, that the additional dragon comes from places like Asshai, Yi Ti, Valyria etc, that Euron really visited (and to be honest, we do not know, whether Euron really sailed among the ruins of Valyria, since he is no POV), but that the dragons is one of the dragons the Targaryens lost (like Sheepstealer, Cannibal) or descended from them (like the potential dragon in WF).

[Suzanna Stormborn]

So Maester Luwin is a bullshit character cause he tells Bran there are no more Children of the Forest? Or is he is liar? Or maybe he is just telling Bran - and us - what HE believes to be the truth..

I agree this is what he believes, that is one small example, disproved by an actual COTF showing up in the books.

Which is not the same at all as what we are talking about. We are talking about not one, but all characters being wrong about the same thing.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Neither of these three is omniscient, so they are no liars, they just do not know it any better. The only persons I would really believe if he/she said, that Daenerys has the only three dragons are people who either have glass-candles (like Marwyn the Mage) or Rhllor-followers who see visions in the flames (excluding Melisandre, because she is quite bad at interpreting them).

Oh sweet, if you believe Marwyn, then here you go;

"Who do you think killed all the dragons the last time around? Gallant dragonslayers armed with swords?" He spat. "The world the citadel is building has no place for sorcery or prophecy or glass candles, much less for dragons."--Marwyn

[TallTyrion]

Yes so? He saw it. The only one PoV who was able to be sure about what he told saw it. None of those who have said that there are no more dragons have been to Asshai, Eyron only claims to, and the WOIAF pretty much proves that there are dragons there. If no one was there how they can know the truth?

So you're picking and choosing the parts of a vision that you want to be correct while ignoring others. There isn't a literal Giant in armour made of Stone standing above Ned and the King so why do you think there are literal Dragons stirring under the sunset in Asshai?

[ChillyPolly]

"As Daenerys Targaryen rose to her feet, her black hissed, pale smoke venting from its mouth and nostrils. The other two pulled away from her breasts and added their voices to the call, translucent wings unfolding and stirring the air, and for the first time in hundreds of years, the night came alive with the music of dragons." -got

This is not a characters opinion, or hearsay, it's the author directly telling us a fact.

Maybe he's talking in the context of the Grass Sea.

Maybe sheepstealer, cannibal and the dragon of winterfell are silent types, and do not sing.

Maybe dragons only sing when they are born

Maybe your last sentence there is wrong, and this merely reflects Dany's belief & P.O.V., as with Biter's foot-long tongue.

[Archmaester Drew]

"As Daenerys Targaryen rose to her feet, her black hissed, pale smoke venting from its mouth and nostrils. The other two pulled away from her breasts and added their voices to the call, translucent wings unfolding and stirring the air, and for the first time in hundreds of years, the night came alive with the music of dragons." -got

This is not a characters opinion, or hearsay, it's the author directly telling us a fact.

Fair enough, but I don't think that the narrative becomes omniscient at the end, only abstracted, thus it is Daenerys' belief that the music of dragons had not been heard in hundreds of years, not fact. :)

[Gendry_Goldeneyes]

it wouldnt surprise me if Cannibal was living on Skagos.... with the rest of the rumored cannibals...

[Archmaester Drew]

it wouldnt surprise me if Cannibal was living on Skagos.... with the rest of the rumored cannibals...

...Or Skane, which is uninhabited. :)

[Gendry_Goldeneyes]

...Or Skane, which is uninhabited. :)

Because Cannibal will eat you

[TallTyrion]

You keen mention Quaithe, who from all we know could be just Dany going crazy.

TWOIAF and Bran the Demigod.

It is quite funny here yet doesn't deserve more than a second.

Other people have seen Quaithe. She isn't a figment of Dany's imagination.

Also you never responed to my point about the Bran vision.

There isn't a literal Giant in armour made of Stone standing above Ned and the King. So why do you think there are literal Dragons stirring under the sunset in Asshai?

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Other people have seen Quaithe. She isn't a figment of Dany's imagination.

Exactly, which is what I said earlier.

Quaithe is real and people can see her, and she is from Asshai, so her along with our other Asshaii can confirm there are no dragons there, as they already have. Point made and proved.