Can Myrcella and Tommon "Waters" survive ?

[Contemplative Brother]

The big wild card for Tommen's future in the short term is his mother's trial. If Tommen's legitimacy (at least in the eyes of the Faith) survives his mother's trial (a fairly big if) then Tommen might have the Faith Militant on his side. It was Tommen (through his Regent) who allowed the Faith Militant to re-form. The High Sparrow wants nothing to do with Stannis (who worships some weird fire god after all) and might remember that it was the Targaryens who disbanded the Faith Militant the first time around. If Tommen has the Faith behind him, he might be harder to get rid of than we think.

Of course, at the rate things are going in the Red Keep, Tommen might be dead by p. 40 of The Winds of Winter, so who knows?

[A spoon of knife and fork]

Tommen seems too timid and is extremely entitled at this point; he needs a little more of Jaime and Tywin and to be away from all of these women

Da fuck? Did you really just make this about gender?

Cersei is horrible, obviously, but Margarey and ollena are going to teach Tommen a lot more about court life and politics than he could ever learn from Jaime.

No kid should learn anything from Tywin.

[Gibzit]

Well,they need to surrender and swear fealty to stannis.

Then they might even get the Rock.

Stannis would not let them live, especially with mell around telling him king's blood is strong.

[Petyr Patter]

Basically, any shot the kids had for surviving "the Martin effect" ended when Cersei turned down Eddard's offer to flee Westeros and instead decided to "play the games of thrones." Now, since Cersei is always wrong (always), she is also wrong about "you win or your die." She's going to lose, live, but her children? They are going to die. It is the price she will pay for her decisions.

[Leonardo]

Da fuck? Did you really just make this about gender?

Cersei is horrible, obviously, but Margarey and ollena are going to teach Tommen a lot more about court life and politics than he could ever learn from Jaime.

No kid should learn anything from Tywin.

Olenna is back at high garden, kevan is dead, and margaery is awaiting trial by the faith and is too busy playing the game to teach Tommen how to play it.

My point is he's been around women too much and has no strong martial role models now that Loras and Jaime are gone. It takes a strong hand to rule the seven kingdoms and sneaking around and conniving only gets you so far.

The kid is also far too entitled and is already technically the most powerful person in the realm or at least holds the position. He's never done a day of work in his life and never will.

Jaime actually has a pretty good handle on the game as well as warfare and the realities of rule. Tywin put down two major rebellions and if Tommen wants to keep that chair he's going to have to out some down as well, including a big northern one when winter is over and Roose is dead.

[Wolf of the Steppes]

They aren't Waters. In the very remote and unlike chance that they survive and Jaime acknowledges them as his children, they would be probably Hill if he takes them with him to CR. Or Lannisters if he marries Cersei.

They are waters, since they were born in the crownlands.

I agree with JonCon--Yes, they were born in the crownlands, but its Jon Snow, not Jon Sand.

[Gibzit]

I agree with JonCon--Yes, they were born in the crownlands, but its Jon Snow, not Jon Sand.

mya stone's dad is a stormlander, but because she was born in the vale, then she is called mya stone.

[Lars Penry]

They'll die horrible deaths.

[Lord Lannister]

I always wondered if the golden shrouds alluded to the Golden Company in some way. But given Joffrey died a completely non fAegon related death, that seems unlikely.

[Baelor Blacktyde]

Sadly, Tommen is doomed. My theory: We know that Tommen's favorite part of being the king is using the royal seal. He will be know as "Tommen the lawmaker" and pass countless edicts just so he can use his stamp. The increase in bureaucracy will drive all the other Lords crazy and they will unite to capture him and stuff his throat with parchment until he chokes.

[A spoon of knife and fork]

Olenna is back at high garden, kevan is dead, and margaery is awaiting trial by the faith and is too busy playing the game to teach Tommen how to play it.

Lol you suggested Tywin who is also dead and jaime who is no closer to Tommen geographically than olenna so don't backtrack into arguments about logistics.

Assuming the premise of the conversation, That Tommen somehow survived and married marg then he will have plenty of time to learn from marg and olenna.

My point is he's been around women too much and has no strong martial role models now that Loras and Jaime are gone. It takes a strong hand to rule the seven kingdoms and sneaking around and conniving only gets you so far.

There are many models of ruling we see in Asoiaf and not all of them are martial. I agree that he should ALSO learn to fight and about things other than politics but it would be stupid to take him Away from the best teachers he has because they happen not to have penises.

The kid is also far too entitled and is already technically the most powerful person in the realm or at least holds the position. He's never done a day of work in his life and never will.

Welcome to feudalism. He literally has a title.

Also it seems like the Tyrells are encouraging Tommen to do more himself and become self reliant. It's cersei who is stopping him.

Jaime actually has a pretty good handle on the game as well as warfare and the realities of rule. Tywin put down two major rebellions and if Tommen wants to keep that chair he's going to have to out some down as well, including a big northern one when winter is over and Roose is dead.

He could let the north go or win it back through good negotiating as well. But you seem to think that somehow he can't learn to fight and learn how to politics. because the wimmonfolk will make him weak or some shit. Not cool.

Also jaime cares not a whit about politics. He'd be a horrible teacher. Tywin also led to the ruin of his house. No one should learn from him except as a cautionary tale.

[Leonardo]

You're missing the point in reference to the topic; I'm saying Tommen is already screwed, its over for him, there is no fixing him now and I was merely musing on possibilities. You seem to be a tad bit too butt hurt about an offhand comment to see what is obvious though

I'm not saying literally take him away from the tyrells/women, I'm saying he needs the other side as well and has been overexposed for years to the wrong kinds of rule and ability, not to mention said people you mentioned are teaching Tommen dick all about the game of thrones, so no he doesn't has teachers. Arya has been murdering people for years and Bran making tough decisions like going north of the wall, while Tommen plays with cats and dawdles around on a horse, riding through the forest with his teenage wife and her friends. Bran was seven when Ned decided he needs to learn what justice means and Bran was never meant to rule.

The Tyrells are USING Tommen, they are teaching him, so yeah let's keep him around the scheming women who are helping to keep him ignorant of the fact there's a war still going on.

[Leonardo]

Also notice I used martial role models, not men in particular. He is at the heart of a rebellion that already claimed a good number of his kin including brother, father, uncle, grandfather. If he wants to rule or at least survive he needs to be more like Tywin.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

mya stone's dad is a stormlander, but because she was born in the vale, then she is called mya stone.

That's not the reason she is named Stone. She is Stone because she's a bastard born from a Lord who hasn't officially recognised her as such. And that's the place she is been taken care of and where she lives. "A bastard from the Vale", so to speak.

There are, for what it looks like, two kind of "bastardy" in Westeros: acknowledged bastards and the rest. Such acknowledge means, apparently, that the father provides the kid and the kid is publicly known as the father's child. If the father doesn't take the kid home, the kid still retains the name of the father. That's Edric's case (even though he lives in the Stormlands), who everyone knows as the only acknowledged bastard of Roberts.

That's not the case of Mya. There is no legal recognition of Mya as Robert's daughter. Everybody knows it but Robert never actually took her with him or send her to be fostered. She's pretty much treated like a noble bastard because they know who her father is, that's all. Otherwise, she wouldn't be working with mules. She would be in a Castle, being educated, like Joy Hill, which Robert intended.

Another example is Obara and Tyene. They were born in the Reach, but their name is Sand, as her father took her to Dorne to be raised. Jon was also born in Dorne but his father has raised him as his son in the North, hence, he's a Snow.

[Mycah Bluth]

I think either Robert Strong is going to murder Tommen in a berserk rage, or he will be poisoned by Tyene. I also believe there is a lot of credence to the idea that he could be killed by a pro-Aegon mob in a mirror image of the Lannisters' murder of the Targaryen children.

Myrcella, I think, is actually going to be killed by Cersei herself right as Aegon is invading. As in Myrcella finds out about the incest and/or wildfire, confronts Cersei about her atrocities and tells her she's going to surrender to Aegon, and Cersei accidentally kills her in a fit of rage (how dare she defy me), jealousy (she is the younger and more beautiful queen) and possessiveness (if I can't keep her by my side nobody can). Then she has a villainous breakdown, starts the wildfire, and is strangled by Jaime.

[A spoon of knife and fork]

Also notice I used martial role models, not men in particular. He is at the heart of a rebellion that already claimed a good number of his kin including brother, father, uncle, grandfather. If he wants to rule or at least survive he needs to be more like Tywin.

Dude you literally said get him away from all these women

[Hangover of the Morning]

I so wish Tommen could survive. That plump inbred is one of my favourite characters (at least in AFfC). Sadly, I am afraid that the beetroot lobby is sending an FM assassin to finish him off but his crazy bitch mother might do it herself even before that.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

The only way for them to survive is for Tommen or Myrcella to reign on the throne. Every other scenario involves them dead.

:agree:

Well, Myrcella could maybe join the Silent Sisters. But Tommen is toast. Maybe even literally.

Actually, that's what is going to get them killed. If Cersei had listened to Jaime's offerings of marriage, they could be already living safely somewhere else, even maybe with Joffrey.

:bs:

That would have meant being hunted down.

Stannis would not let them live, especially with mell around telling him king's blood is strong.

Which king's blood?

[Mycah Bluth]

Does anybody else think at least Myrcella (if not Tommen as well) will be told that they are bastards born of incest?

[The Wolves]

Nope they both are dying, sucks those poor kids ~Kanye shrug~ it's all Cersei's fault.