GRRM at recent charity event: I'm still in the middle of the book

[Colonel Green]

My question about this is, if when he said he is in the middle of the book does he mean he is in the middle of the editing it.

No, that's clearly not what he means, since he uses that phrase in the context of saying there's a bunch of stuff he hasn't written yet.

Well, the smartest time to release WoW is Xmas this or possibly next year, with ADoS being the following Xmas. Massive sales, book fans get to read it all just before it airs.

Man, if GRRM knuckled down, I have no doubt he could achieve it. He could make the 2 books 2 of the bestsellers ever.

You think GRRM can not only finish TWOW within a year but also write the entirety of ADOS in about a year?

[The King in Black]

I'm bored now.

[Vegeta_Greyjoy]

I'm in the middle of reading this thread.

[ummester]

You think GRRM can not only finish TWOW within a year but also write the entirety of ADOS in about a year?

He wrote ASoS pretty quickly and that's the second longest book.

It depends how committed and focussed he is. He is the one who stands to gain, both financially and personally, by getting the novels out before the show.

[Blazfemur]

To hell with charity -- put away the kfc, clean your hands with a napkin, and start typing.

The nerve.

[TallTyrion]

I have a hope that aDoS will go faster than the other novels.

We will lose more POVs and other's will join up with each other. Hopefully that makes for a more streamlined story that is easier to write out. But that's just the optimist in me speaking.

[Blazfemur]

I have a hope that aDoS will go faster than the other novels.

We will lose more POVs and other's will join up with each other. Hopefully that makes for a more streamlined story that is easier to write out. But that's just the optimist in me speaking.

kill people quicker to wrap up the story quicker. i like it. let's start with tyrion.

[UVA]

That's rich Leo. The article you linked mentions Martin's wish to possibly finish the adaptation on the big screen, where presumably D&D/HBO are out of the picture. Unless HBO has the rights for a film adaptation, this hardly supports your case that Martin was bound and gagged by HBO to finish the book series in a specific way.

Stop being lazy and fuckin read it if you're going to be so pig headed. It says they have the broad strokes ending and even more now after meeting him. Logic dictates it was part of the contract.

What? No it does not. I would've hoped that any legal professional who counseled Martin when he inked the deal advised the author to not to enter into any rights contract that obligated him to write a specific, yet theoretical outcome for the various characters of asoiaf, e.g., Jon is not the (ridiculously) designed AAR/TPtWP/Last Hero messiah figure. Presumably such a deal was devised to specify the scope of HBO's licensing rights, but this doesn't necessarily extend to how Martin or D&D tell the story. Given how staunchly Martin defends his process, his ideas and has been adamant about how the books and show are different products, it's very doubtful that Martin would agree to these constraints from the outset, legal counsel or not.

That said, I also don't think that Martin is going to pull a "gotcha" and significantly alter the ending he verbally presented to the producers after the show became a cultural phenomenon -- but not because he was contractually prohibited from doing so.

There are so many factors at play that we can't assume a whole lot -- certainly not to the degree to which certain posters in this thread have declared this would be a "clear cut" case of a breach of contract in the event Martin alters the ending he disclosed to the show's producers. What the hell do we know of the details?

I would like to know what was Martin's obligation to the HBO project in the event it was unsuccessful by some agreed-upon standards, and was cancelled after 1-2 seasons and the licensing contract was terminated? Rights revert back to Martin, or was there a non-compete/non-solicitation provision for a specified period of time after the contract was terminated? Did HBO's representation include an auto-renew clause in the event the show was a ratings win for the network? Did HBO insert a sunset provision, such that Martin loses creative control over the TV project in the event he doesn't provide source material by X date, whereby the show's writers/producers create a screenplay loosely based on the books? Did Martin's lawyers stipulate that HBO had to complete the series in the way he envisioned and/or vice versa? What is the scope of HBO's asoiaf licensing and so forth.

[Ramsay's Penguins]

Seven hells.....

More time for theories I suppose.
Its the show for me then. Its not the easy way out, but its better then... nothing

Lets look on the brightside! By the time its comes out we won't need to buy it, since we would have already figured out the ending :P

[White Ravens]

I have a hope that aDoS will go faster than the other novels.

We will lose more POVs and other's will join up with each other. Hopefully that makes for a more streamlined story that is easier to write out. But that's just the optimist in me speaking.

Optimism? Well done! This type of thread is usually more about fan entitlement and resentment directed at GRRM for not chaining himself to his computer.

[ummester]

The article you linked mentions Martin's wish to possibly finish the adaptation on the big screen, where presumably D&D/HBO are out of the picture. Unless HBO has the rights for a film adaptation, this hardly supports your case that Martin was bound and gagged by HBO to finish the book series in a specific way.

Re the big screen thing - I think it's either wishful thinking that GRRM can break free of the show, or a possibility that HBO wants the idea floated.

It's not impossible that HBO wants to make a cinema breakthrough on the back of GoTs popularity. If News Corp buys Time Warner, it could alter the way GoTs is formatted (ie less adult) and a big screen conclusion may be the only way HBO can keep the tone established. Big screen R rated flicks are seldom that financially successful, though, so there could be a chance, if HBO is sold with a Warner package, that the end of GoTs will have to be toned down regardless.

These are really dark thoughts though - it means no satisfying book or TV ending.

[sj4iy]

Optimism? Well done! This type of thread is usually more about fan entitlement and resentment directed at GRRM for not chaining himself to his computer.

I personally don't care what Martin does or how long it takes. It's his life, and if he never typed another word, that's his prerogative. I'll just move on to something else, anyway, as I always do with hobbies.

[Table8]

All this talk about the HbO contract is ridiculous. We don't know whats in the contract, but more importantly - it doesn't matter.

What we do KNOW: GRRM confided an ending that was "satisfying" to D&D.

What we can ASSUME: D&D won't deviate too much (if at all) from that revealed ending.

If GRRM has the legal ability to alter the ending,why would he? To sabotage the show?!? Preposterous. Remember, GRRM was looking to sell the rights to this story to make money. Why would he reveal an inferior ending to D&D? If he decides to change it now, he very well could sabotage his whole story, and for what? To be different than GoT? I certainly believe that when he met with D&D, he had every expectation to complete the series before the show caught up.

Face it, we're getting the ending via HBO way before the books ever come out. And those who don't want to be spoiled better start looking for that rock to live under beforehand.

[Ramsay's Penguins]

IF George dies then I have no doubt that D&D would release the original outlines for the ending of the series.
This isn't a series that anyone can take over.

Obviously the show is going to be different to the books (sometimes the changes are good, sometimes they aren't).
They know the "true" ending and wouldn't keep it from people.

tWoW will probably be released when the final season of the show airs. 2016-2017. :/

[Ramsay's Penguins]

We just need to prepare ourselves. If you purposely spoiled something for show watchers then they're going to be getting their revenge by spoiling it for book readers.

Karma~

[TallTyrion]

kill people quicker to wrap up the story quicker. i like it. let's start with tyrion.

haha I can't say I'm in favour of that at least not till the last book but losing POVs is inevitable.

Someone posted early only 4 POV characters have died so far which I found surprising. Ned, Cat, Quentyn, and Oakheart. That number will probably increase substantially in the next two books

[The Human Abstract]

Usual hyperbole over an innocuous comment. If I say "I am in the middle of cleaning my room" I simply mean it is a work in progress, nothing more. I can't see any difference here.

Absolutely

[Eiko Dragonhorn]

What we can ASSUME: D&D won't deviate too much (if at all) from that revealed ending.

Why would you assume that?

Sure you CAN assume it... but I can just as easily, and more justifiably, assume they will deviate significantly.

[ADB]

It's amazing the level of denial that some people on here are willing to go to to believe that the show is somehow going to end totally different than the books.

HBO bought the television rights for "A Song of Ice and Fire," the complete story created by Martin. That includes getting the rights to the end of the story. It being only partially published doesn't change what any and every production company buys when they option a property, which includes rights to unpublished material in the same story.

Despite enough straw men being flung around to man every fort at the Wall, NOBODY is saying that this entitles HBO to dictate how the story ends. It DOES mean that GRRM is required to provide them with good-faith cooperation in supplying them with the end of the story, which it's already established that he has done. Both an outline when he signed the contract, and a week long complete infodump with D&D last year.

IF, in some bout of feverish mania or an absinthe-induced nightmare GRRM were to decide to SIGNIFICANTLY change the ending to which he has been building for almost 20 years, AND he did NOT inform HBO of that, or if he deliberately misled them about the ending to avoid spoiling the books, THEN he would have breached his contract with them. For fairly obvious reasons, neither of those things are going to happen. Whatever amount of faith you might have (or not) in GRRM getting through the rest of the books, I think "knowing the ending" is a fairly basic thing to have at this point.

Just as obvious, D&D aren't going to radically rewrite an ending which fits in with all the other important parts of the story, which they have described as very satisfying, and have noted multiple times that they absolutely are going to use.

The show is going to end the same as the books, folks.

Back on topic... count me too as one of those people who would love it if Martin got out of the habit of doing doorstoppers. I'd happily take a 500 page book every 2 years over a 1200 page one every five. I wish his publisher and editor would wake him up a little. They're the ones who stand to lose money if the show finishes first.

[Eiko Dragonhorn]

The show is going to end the same as the books, folks.

You have to be delusional, have you never seen any other adaptation ever?

They're never the same. Format changes make that impossible.

Many/most are radically different.

If you want to narrow the ending down to "who is sitting on the throne at the end", then sure, it might be the "same". But that's less than 1% of the ending IMO.