Michael Brown shooting six

[Kalbear]

Very different stories indeed. At least three of them contradict the findings in the autopsy. When you remove the junk testimony, the story starts to sound more like Wilson's.

And how exactly do you remove the junk testimony?

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

Weird that the posters that seem to at least question Wilsons side of the story, or at least challenge the DA seem to have high post counts, whereas the people that support Wilson have low post counts. Huh.

Battle not with trolls, lest your post count trebles.

[Wee baby Shamus]

That's it seriously? Utilise external weapons, escalating to and including shooting, but no unarmed options at all? Because I'm pretty sure police in other areas can manage to subdue people without a taser or pepper spray or shooting them.

Except the fight didn't escalate from there, at the time of the shooting Wilson was out of his car, aware and prepared. He should be able to subdue without lethal force or you are failing in the way you train your officers.

Actually it did.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

And how exactly do you remove the junk testimony?

Any testimony that doesn't resemble or support Wilson's testimony is junk. You know, just like the prosecutor instructed the Grand Jury.

[theprincethatwasntpromised]

That's it seriously? Utilise external weapons, escalating to and including shooting, but no unarmed options at all? Because I'm pretty sure police in other areas can manage to subdue people without a taser or pepper spray or shooting them.

Except the fight didn't escalate from there, at the time of the shooting Wilson was out of his car, aware and prepared. He should be able to subdue without lethal force or you are failing in the way you train your officers.

But Brown had already assaulted Wilson and tried for his gun. If Brown flees from the vehicle and gets on the ground, he'd be alive today. He's going to jail but he'd be alive. He didn't do that, he chose to remain defiant and escalate the situation. Wilson says in his interview that after the first series of shots, he could tell that he hit brown. So he stops, tells him to get down and again Brown chooses to move toward him. I've said this before and the grand jury agrees. Michael Brown's actions escalated the situation, not Wilson's.

[karaddin]

Actually it did.

No it didn't, escalating from there would have been Brown dragging Wilson from the car, or Wilson shooting him. Brown retreated to some distance - 30 feet or 140 feet depending on accounts, and at that point was shot by Wilson. Even if he was charging at that point, Wilson should have been able to resolve the situation without shooting him. Yes I believe police have a duty to use lethal force as a last resort even when being assaulted.

And TPTWP seems to think that repeatedly asserting the conclusion of the Grand Jury will magically make me agree with it.

[TrueMetis]

Not if the teenager surprised the cop by attacking suddenly. A surprise attack has won many battles throughout history.

And remember in this case Wilson was sitting in his patrol car while Brown was standing outside of it. Meaning Wilson was in a confined space so Brown had the advantage.

If he was still surprised when he killed brown then he's the stupidest cop ever.

[Wee baby Shamus]

But Brown had already assaulted Wilson and tried for his gun. If Brown flees from the vehicle and gets on the ground, he'd be alive today. He's going to jail but he'd be alive. He didn't do that, he chose to remain defiant and escalate the situation. Wilson says in his interview that after the first series of shots, he could tell that he hit brown. So he stops, tells him to get down and again Brown chooses to move toward him. I've said this before and the grand jury agrees. Michael Brown's actions escalated the situation, not Wilson's.

That is the part that they can not comprehend. They are only focused on the fact that Brown was unarmed. Wilson gave Brown a warning to get down after already being shot and Brown continues to move forward. Wilson went to the next level of force.

[karaddin]

That is the part that they can not comprehend. They are only focused on the fact that Brown was unarmed. Wilson gave Brown a warning to get down after already being shot and Brown continues to move forward. Wilson went to the next level of force.

No this is the part you cannot comprehend. Even if the version of events peddled above are 100% accurate, we still don't believe this escalation is warranted or right.

[Kalbear]

Which would be the mace he reported to have.

OWAIT

[theprincethatwasntpromised]

And how exactly do you remove the junk testimony?

By coupling it with physical evidence and scrutiny. When a percentage of witness are saying the same thing and some one testifies something out in left field, you wonder if they actually saw anything at all.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

Which would be the mace he reported to have.

OWAIT

But at that point Wilson already had an owie on his cheek. The appropriate level of escalation at that point when the suspect is black is to go to your firearm.

[Wee baby Shamus]

No this is the part you cannot comprehend. Even if the version of events peddled above are 100% accurate, we still don't believe this escalation is warranted or right.

It doesn't matter if you believe that the escalation is warranted or right because that is the way the law works for the police in America.

Again this post of yours with the word believe in it goes back to my posts about using emotion instead of facts.

On a side note Karaddin, I have been enjoying debating with you because you haven't made any back handed insults to my intelligence like other people who post here have.

Thank you for that.

[theprincethatwasntpromised]

No this is the part you cannot comprehend. Even if the version of events peddled above are 100% accurate, we still don't believe this escalation is warranted or right.

Let me ask you, if you've had a police officer fire a shot in your direction, then stops and tells you to get down, what's going to be your next action?

[Wee baby Shamus]

Let me ask you, if you've had a police officer fire a shot in your direction, then stops and tells you to get down, what's going to be your next action?

I'm getting the fuck down on my stomach with my hands on the top of my head and I'm not moving until the police officer says I can get up or he/she puts me in hand-cuffs.

Whether I think that I am wrong or right.

[theprincethatwasntpromised]

But at that point Wilson already had an owie on his cheek. The appropriate level of escalation at that point when the suspect is black is to go to your firearm.

Still if Brown would have complied, the situations over. He escalated, not Wilson.

[Stubby]

It doesn't matter if you believe that the escalation is warranted or right because that is the way the law works for the police in America.

Why do you think this is the case?

[theprincethatwasntpromised]

Exactly creepo, it doesn't matter who it is shooting. My ass is hitting the floor. Brown did not take that course of action. Therefore, grand jury has justified Wilson's action.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

Let me ask you, if you've had a police officer fire a shot in your direction, then stops and tells you to get down, what's going to be your next action?

Which might be relevant if Wilson had fired a warning shot.

[karaddin]

Whether the use of deadly force is an appropriate escalation or not isn't a matter of fact. Sure there is an emotional component to it, but I wouldn't say it's a matter of emotion either, it's an ideological or philosophical view on the place of police and deadly force in society. I can only phrase that as my belief or opinion because there is no fact to appeal to. If you think this level of escalation is appropriate then I would argue that it is not applied evenly throughout American society - happening more frequently to black people than white for example.

TPTWP - What on earth does that have to do with anything? I'm raised as white as white gets in a society with a lot less issues with police than the US, I would have quietly sat in the back of the paddy wagon like the good little rule follower I am and never been in the second situation in the first place. But that's because I've been told that the police are there to protect me, which is not remotely what people like Brown are learning as they grow up (it also is less true for me than it used to be. My personal reactions are irrelevant to whether I think the police should be escalating to deadly force in that situation.

As to the post I missed that Stubby just quoted - I'm stating my opinion on what is right not what is legal. Hence earlier when I said I'm not judging what the outcome of a trial would be, but I am saying Wilson was wrong.