Woman of War Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 who's to say that she'll remain with LF until season 7?Sansa is the POV who tells us about Baelish, she will stay with him for a while Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 Littlefinger's story is told throughout the series from the perspectives of various characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliceRose Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 who's to say that she'll remain with LF until season 7? In the next season Baelish will pass some time at KL and Sasa remains in the Vale without him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annara Snow Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 I love how ASOAIF/GoT fandom is all: "OMG, GRRM is such an unpredictable writer! His books are so full of twists and surprises, you never know who is going to die and what is going to happen! He constantly subverts expectations and stereotypes!" ...and then: "So LF spirited Sansa away and put her under his 'protection'/control and wants to fuck her eventually? Sansa is currently spending a lot of time with him? Well, Sansa must fuck him now. Yep. Sooner or later. There's no alternative. It's only about whether he rapes her or she "decides" to let him fuck her for this reason or another. Like, she can show "agency" by deciding to let him get what he wants instead of being coerced to, which would otherwise happen, right? (A creepy dude is using the position of power to sexually molest you? Just go and "seduce" him! Yay for female sexual agency! What, that's not really a good example of sexual agency? What are you talking about?) But one way or another, the Littlefinger fuckage is inevitable and Sansa can't escape it. How can anyone imagine Sansa's arc now without her fucking Littlefinger?" (To paraphrase Cersei at Sansa's forced wedding, "You may come along quietly and say your vows as befits a lady, or you may struggle and scream and make a spectacle for the stableboys to titter over, but you will end up wedded and bedded all the same.”) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beric175 Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 It's not that readers want that to happen to her but unless she can escape the Vale in the books or the show, that is the likely scenario, given that LF is the lord of the vale and can easily make her stay with him if he feels he needs to use coercion to keep her around or to have her do what he wants and while that is not usually his style it could very well be a last resort option open to him if he feels desperate enough to use that kind of power. She has to know how to trick him in order to keep him away from her and while sansa is learning, she is not a master at deception yet, whereas Lf is. I don't think that seducing him would be a sign of her agency and while I fail to see what other way exists around getting creeped on by LF at least in some way, it's not something i want to read.So far, given the distribution of power at the Vale at the moment, LF holds many of good cards. She, at least in the show, is aware of how much of a weakness of LF she herself represents. She's still a potential target of his anger though, should she rebuke him because we know how he reacted the last time that happened. Ultimately, the War of Five Kings is essentially the result of this man not getting laid by the girl that he was obsessing over. If the circumstances are not hopeful it's because Martin has written the story in a way that makes it difficult to see Sansa's story without some sort of confrontation between herself and LF and since we all know that LF is sexually attracted to her that will factor in how bad things will get for Sansa going forward. I fail to see how there is any way she could refuse him if he really decided to threaten her if she does not respond positively to his advances. Maybe Sansa just murders him with poison at some reception (which i would really prefer as opposed to seeing her 'having to seduce him', which I don't think is a good way out of this situation) and that's the end of him but if that's what happens I doubt it will happen in season 5 of the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woman of War Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 I just can't get the outrage accompanying the idea that Martin might write Sansa into an affair with Baelish.I believe no one here is assuming any kind of ending as in staying together for that pairing. Even if Sansa may at some point of the books get closer to Baelish than some readers like this doesn't in any way way block her character from growing beyond it.No, she would get stronger as fictional character, as person and as literary invention, If she manages to free herself from Baelish after having been very much involved. It would be a compelling read if she learns to transform a disastrous love affair into personal strength, if she draws competence from knowledge and insight. She would have suffered and have gotten what she did not deserve like all important characters have in the books. And so many female protagonists have in literature.And no involvement with Baelish would cut off any story options for Sansa's character. SanSan fans could still hope, physical virginity can always be faked if politics demand it, so she could still make a power match with e.g. Aegon, anything would be possible for her since one story turn will for sure not happen: Sansa will not stay with Baelish beyond the timeframe of the books since anything like an ending that goes along with Baelish's wishes won't be written, this is not the way the Baelish character has been constructed.So why so much controversy? Sansa. Will. Not. End. With. LF, at least not alive. The plans the author has for her will prove to be incompatible to the plans he has for Baelish. I'm quite sure about it, so whether we are mildly interested or really passionate about her - LF won't be her endgame and after him everything is open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juanml82 Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 In the next season Baelish will pass some time at KL and Sasa remains in the Vale without him.well, the same happened in the books, only that LF went to Gulltown instead of KL, and Sansa acted like his loyal deputy in his absence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voodooqueen126 Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 I think they get the idea from movies/tv shows where women manipulate men through sex, but that doesn't fit Sansa's character. Which is so lame and unrealistic. It ties into the idea that sex, female sexuality in particular, is evil and manipulative. Also anyone had much luck using sex as a manipulation technique? Really because men many do have screwed up notions of sex and women, sex as a manipulation technique is more likely to backfire and cause the man to see the woman as dirty and worthless. On the other hand, withholding sex from men... is incredibly rewarding. So why would Sansa (who has supposedly come so far) be a stupid as Cersei? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Green Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 I just can't get the outrage accompanying the idea that Martin might write Sansa into an affair with Baelish. Well, for one thing, nothing he's written suggests that's where she's going. Her AFFC chapters are pretty much all about her psychology, and her rejection of Baelish's sexual advances are the most consistent thing about it, even as she comes to view him more favourably as a father figure. His romantic attraction to her she consistently assigns to "Littlefinger", the person she doesn't like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Sansa is putting on an act, "inside and out." And she's lying to Littlefinger. SANSA doesn't see him as a father figure. Everything Alayne thinks is not necessarily what SANSA thinks. She weaves in and out of the role playing in her thoughts, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Which is so lame and unrealistic. It ties into the idea that sex, female sexuality in particular, is evil and manipulative. Also anyone had much luck using sex as a manipulation technique? Of course you are right. Lame and unrealistic. They have presented a main female character's sexuality as manipulation. They cut her out of her own story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juanml82 Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Well, for one thing, nothing he's written suggests that's where she's going. Her AFFC chapters are pretty much all about her psychology, and her rejection of Baelish's sexual advances are the most consistent thing about it, even as she comes to view him more favourably as a father figure. His romantic attraction to her she consistently assigns to "Littlefinger", the person she doesn't like. Would you care to point out which parts of AFFC show Sansa rejecting Baelish sexual advances? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Some quotes: I am not your daughter, she thought. I am Sansa Stark, Lord Eddard’s daughter and Lady Catelyn’s, the blood of Winterfell... “Trust no one, I once told Eddard Stark, but he would not listen. You are Alayne, and you must be Alayne all the time.” He put two fingers on her left breast. “Even here. In your heart. Can you do that? Can you be my daughter in your heart?” “I …” I do not know, my lord, she almost said, but that was not what he wanted to hear. Lies and Arbor gold, she thought. “I am Alayne, Father. Who else would I be?” It will mean my head if I am found, she reminded herself as she descended a flight of icy stone steps. I must be Alayne all the time, inside and out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Green Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Would you care to point out which parts of AFFC show Sansa rejecting Baelish sexual advances? Er, any time that he makes one? By "reject" I mean that she clearly does not like them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juanml82 Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Er, any time that he makes one? By "reject" I mean that she clearly does not like them. By AFFC she shows more coldness and indifference than anything else. There are no more reactions like the one she had during the snow castle by the time the narrative hits AFFC, and that's a deliberate decision of GRRM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Green Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 There are no more reactions like the one she had during the snow castle by the time the narrative hits AFFC, and that's a deliberate decision of GRRM Yeah, because the snow castle was a surprise. She's used to him creeping on her by the end of AFFC. What hasn't changed is her response to it. Throughout AFFC she divides him, psychologically, into "Petyr" and "Littlefinger". "Petyr" is her friend and father-figure; "Littlefinger" is the persona she assigns the things she doesn't like about him, including his sexual interest in her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annara Snow Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Yeah, because the snow castle was a surprise. She's used to him creeping on her by the end of AFFC. What hasn't changed is her response to it. Throughout AFFC she divides him, psychologically, into "Petyr" and "Littlefinger". "Petyr" is her friend and father-figure; "Littlefinger" is the persona she assigns the things she doesn't like about him, including his sexual interest in her. And if she's learned anything from his response to her reaction to the Snow Castle kiss - namely, the fact he didn't give a damn about her objections, making her fear he's going to try to rape her just as Marillion did - it's that protesting against his advances and openly rejecting him can only make things worse, and he's only likely to get more aggressive and rapey. Plus, she's even more in his control now that Lysa is dead. Tolerating his unwanted advances with indifference (even though she's really uncomfortable with them), acting as if she is being an "obedient daughter" who doesn't even understand what's going on and blanking them as much as possible in her mind seems the healthiest way to deal with it at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadow282 Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Sansa is the POV who tells us about Baelish, she will stay with him for a while In the books, yes, she is the LF POV. But the show doesn't need a POV there for us to learn about and follow LF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Doe Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 She will be raped by sweetrobin. It is known. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juanml82 Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Yeah, because the snow castle was a surprise. She's used to him creeping on her by the end of AFFC. What hasn't changed is her response to it. Throughout AFFC she divides him, psychologically, into "Petyr" and "Littlefinger". "Petyr" is her friend and father-figure; "Littlefinger" is the persona she assigns the things she doesn't like about him, including his sexual interest in her. And her last chapter has her referring to him only as Petyr and nowhere in AFFC we get any opinion about his kisses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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