DraculaAD1972 Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 The only solution, in Westeros and real life, is abolition of the global system and complete permanent equal redistribution of wealth. A New World Order.The new system will be run on Planetos by Daenerys as a benign global dictator, and in real life by Barack Obama heading a global bureaucracy of nationally elected leaders. Money will be phased out as humanity evolves into a Culture based not on competition or wealth or power, but on Love. People will live natural lives, eating mainly barn-reared chickens and cereals and wearing hemp clothes. Everyone will be too tired from spending all day farming to want sex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hrafntýr Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 ^^^Heaven on earth. :rolleyes: :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Who's John?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryanfury Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Johns are a slang name for men who pay prostitutes for sex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Johns are a slang name for men who pay prostitutes for sex. Thanks. I kinda figured out but still... btw, this thread has gone mad. MAD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChillyPolly Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Scapegoating prostitution for cheating is maybe the wildest thing I have read.This must be a troll. No. Just a straw man. Nobody is "scapegoating" prostitution for cheating. Merely pointing out that the free choice of those occasional autonomous "happy hookers" to invite men to cheat on the women in their lives is not such a valuable service, or such a valuable "right", that it outweighs the need to protect abused women and prevent human trafficking by the most effective means available ... penalizing johns and drying up the demand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChillyPolly Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 I can't imagine how someone could enjoy the profession, but if women out there say they're happy, who am I to say they aren't? Nobody is saying the "happy hooker" is not really happy. She might not be happy (it is pretty much every hooker's job to pretend to love it), but that is neither here nor there. Let's assume she is happy. I simply do not care whether she is happy or not. Her supposed "right" to live her chosen lifestyle does not, in my view, outweigh the need to prevent the serious abuse of women and human trafficking by the most efficient means available. The whims of the happy hooker do not outweigh the extreme dangers posed to the masses of unhappy ones. You say you don't know about the extent of the abuse, or how to stop it. I get the impression you don't particularly care, and don't care how many women get abused and raped because prostitution is legalized, because it is not the happy hooker's problem, as long she can pursue her precious autonomy. I just disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimJames Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Nobody is saying the "happy hooker" is not really happy. She might not be happy (it is pretty much every hooker's job to pretend to love it), but that is neither here nor there. Let's assume she is happy. I simply do not care whether she is happy or not. Her supposed "right" to live her chosen lifestyle does not, in my view, outweigh the need to prevent the serious abuse of women and human trafficking by the most efficient means available. The whims of the happy hooker do not outweigh the extreme dangers posed to the masses of unhappy ones. You say you don't know about the extent of the abuse, or how to stop it. I get the impression you don't particularly care, and don't care how many women get abused and raped because prostitution is legalized, because it is not the happy hooker's problem, as long she can pursue her precious autonomy. I just disagree.Well said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryanfury Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 I simply do not care whether she is happy or not. Her supposed "right" to live her chosen lifestyle does not, in my view, outweigh the need to prevent the serious abuse of women and human trafficking by the most efficient means available. The whims of the happy hooker do not outweigh the extreme dangers posed to the masses of unhappy ones. And what makes you think the removal of rights and legality of the happy ones does anything at all to stop the illegal bullshit that goes on separate from the legal side of the profession? Illegality didn't stop it before. Why would it stop it now? Protip: It won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ummester Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 (1) WANTING to buy sex has no effect at all. It is only the actual buying of sex that causes problems. (2) I explicitly mentioned advertising in the post you are responding to. Those advertising dollars come from johns (who probably stole those dollars from their wives). Demand does indeed increase, when advertising occurs. Demand does indeed increase when legalization occurs. The result is that more money flows into the coffers of the pimps (who now have the status of businessmen and lobbyists), who engage in more trafficking and more abuse (and more bribery and more corruption) and more advertising, in an increased number of increasingly legitimate venues. And of course the more jaded and experienced a john becomes, the more demanding (and degrading) his demands become. It's a vicious cycle. (3) I do not "seem" to have a superpuritan view of things. That is simply a dishonest statement by one desperate to make ad-hominem attacks. All my arguments have been based on identifiable harms, or the unacceptable risk of such harm. (4) The reason I mentioned that most johns are married is because this is a readily-obtainable statistic. Obviously, if we included men who are cheating on their girlfriends, the proportions of johns who are traitors to the women in their lives would be even higher. Of course, then there are other situations, such as the young men who squander money entrusted to them by their parents for some more worthy purpose. They are traitors too, in a way. This is so OTT - it has to be half in jest, right? Your having fun now - like one of those parrots that is regurgitating what it heard some priest say for the chuckles or something, aren't you? From my perspective, you do seem to have a super puritan view of sexual interaction - it is not dishonest for me to express how things seem to me. Some men earn and spend their own money on prostitutes - without cheating or taking that money from their parents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChillyPolly Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 And what makes you think the removal of rights and legality of the happy ones does anything at all to stop the illegal bullshit that goes on separate from the legal side of the profession? Holland and Germany on the one hand. Sweden on the other. And no. Nobody expects to stop it ENTIRELY. It's just that some people think FEWER rapes is a good thing. They don't have this "if we can't beat 'em, join 'em" attitude that you seem to have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizabethB. Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 No. Just a straw man. Nobody is "scapegoating" prostitution for cheating. Merely pointing out that the free choice of those occasional autonomous "happy hookers" to invite men to cheat on the women in their lives is not such a valuable service, or such a valuable "right", that it outweighs the need to protect abused women and prevent human trafficking by the most effective means available ... penalizing johns and drying up the demand.How about, as you very well put it, a "direct death by penis"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChillyPolly Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 This is so OTT - it has to be half in jest, right? Your having fun now - like one of those parrots that is regurgitating what it heard some priest say for the chuckles or something, aren't you? There is little, if anything, in what you quoted that can be sanely disputed. Please tell me what you are disputing. I suspect the problem is on your end. Some men earn and spend their own money on prostitutes - without cheating or taking that money from their parents. When did I ever deny that? Clearly, the problem is on your end. No prostitute, of course, restricts herself to that kind of client. And my only point is not that we should ban prostutiton for that reason alone. Merely that her lifestyle is not sufficiently admirable that her "right" to engage in it should cancel out our need to take effective measures to deter the exploitation and trafficking of women and children. And the effective way to do that is dry up the demand. Mainly by punishing and stigmatizing johns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChillyPolly Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 How about, as you very well put it, a "direct death by penis"? What about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryanfury Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Holland and Germany on the one hand. Sweden on the other. And no. Nobody expects to stop it ENTIRELY. It's just that some people think FEWER rapes is a good thing. They don't have this "if we can't beat 'em, join 'em" attitude that you seem to have. Yeah, and these people should learn that fewer rapes isn't going to happen if you make prostitution illegal. Evidence: rape occurring in countries that make prostitution illegal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChillyPolly Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Yeah, and these people should learn that fewer rapes isn't going to happen if you make prostitution illegal. Evidence: rape occurring in countries that make prostitution illegal No sane person believes that making prostitution legal results in fewer rapes ... merely in fewer REPORTED rapes. Because of course (among other reasons) the extensive raping and sexual slavery of trafficked women and children goes largely unreported and ignored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizabethB. Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 No sane person believes that making prostitution legal results in fewer rapes ... merely in fewer REPORTED rapes. Because of course (among other reasons) the extensive raping and sexual slavery of trafficked women and children goes largely unreported and ignored.The parrot is sane. It is known. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ummester Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 When did I ever deny that? Clearly, the problem is on your end. No prostitute, of course, restricts herself to that kind of client. And my only point is not that we should ban prostutiton for that reason alone. Merely that her lifestyle is not sufficiently admirable that her "right" to engage in it should cancel out our need to take effective measures to deter the exploitation and trafficking of women and children. And the effective way to do that is dry up the demand. Mainly by punishing and stigmatizing johns. So, if prostitutes only sold themselves (without any middle man like pimps) to customers who legally obtained their own money and were not in any kind of sexual relationship with anyone else, then you would be OK with selling sex under these conditions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChillyPolly Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 So, if prostitutes only sold themselves (without any middle man like pimps) to customers who legally obtained their own money and were not in any kind of sexual relationship with anyone else, then you would be OK with selling sex under these conditions? This is a joke, right? What is your plan for achieving this? I'll happily leave them alone as long as it does not lead to abuse and trafficking of women and children. But it does. I don't admire adultery or prostitution, but I don't think would be a matter for the state if not for these more compelling concerns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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