doodlebutt Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Maybe this was already covered enough, but to me it seems like Tywin's general attitude about Tyrion is "I don't myself consider you a Lannister, but everyone else tells me you are, so I'll give you an unfavorable Lannister name to match your unfavorable existence." If he had been named something seemingly non-Lannister, people would raise even more questions about Tyrion's parentage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSB Posted December 17, 2014 Author Share Posted December 17, 2014 Jaime. Gerion. Janei. Joanna. Genna. Joy.Theres clearly a tradition of j and soft g names. joanna was no lannister when named, and i do not know who janei is. and joy was a bastard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Blue Knight Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 GallowsKnight, on 17 Dec 2014 - 6:32 PM, said:Jaime. Gerion. Janei. Joanna. Genna. Joy.Theres clearly a tradition of j and soft g names. joanna was no lannister when named, and i do not know who janei is. and joy was a bastard.Joanna was born into a cadet branch of House Lannister. Janei is Kevan's daughter. I agree that Joy is not a very good example of a Lannister name. GallowsKnight's post goes to show that Jaime's name is just as traditional as Tyrion's. Therefore, Tywin did not favor one or the other when he named them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSB Posted December 17, 2014 Author Share Posted December 17, 2014 Tywin was likely grieving when he named him. I'm sure he didn't think that through, simply chose the first name he could remember that didn't bring happy memories. Also, remember that they thought Tyrion wouldn't live long. Not every name is meant to have a meaning. Look at "Rhaegar". No King had been named Rhaegar before. Does that mean that he was not a rightful heir to Aerys' eyes? They probably simply liked the name. Rhaegar, otoh, gave his son a "kingly" name. jon? and i question the wisdom of aegon too, as reminding folks of the most famous namesake reminds them his conquering. someone has to be conquered, and they were king/s before. so others can be king/s again. a shrewd student of history would surely see the benefit of the remittance of such inferences, even if it were to take generations to do so. 'other rulers, not targs? never heard of such a crazy thing!' trumps 'his great great great +++++ granddad kicked ass' every time. even if as an opinion it is held only by the illiterate, especially when that constitutes 90 percent of the populace............ anyhoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 jon? and i question the wisdom of aegon too, as reminding folks of the most famous namesake reminds them his conquering. someone has to be conquered, and they were king/s before. so others can be king/s again. a shrewd student of history would surely see the benefit of the remittance of such inferences, even if it were to take generations to do so. 'other rulers, not targs? never heard of such a crazy thing!' trumps 'his great great great +++++ granddad kicked ass' every time. even if as an opinion it is held only by the illiterate, especially when that constitutes 90 percent of the populace............ anyhoo Aegon is a Targ name as Edward, Louis and Charles are in our world, there is no much meaning behind it. They had good Aegons and bad Aegons. And Jon was not named by Rhaegar but by Ned, after Jon Arryn. And speaking of Jons, Connington also has a name that had little or nothing of the names of his family: Ronnet, Ronald, Raymund, Alynne, Alyn... Jon. Maybe his dad was drunk when he named him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSB Posted December 17, 2014 Author Share Posted December 17, 2014 GallowsKnight, on 17 Dec 2014 - 6:32 PM, said: Joanna was born into a cadet branch of House Lannister. Janei is Kevan's daughter. I agree that Joy is not a very good example of a Lannister name. GallowsKnight's post goes to show that Jaime's name is just as traditional as Tyrion's. Therefore, Tywin did not favor one or the other when he named them. i concur, but he certainly favors one of them now, and based primarily upon the dwarf status that was evident at the time of naming. the drinking and whoring would be at the least unmentioned if jaime or a handsome, violent third brother were to indulge themselves, so even later transgressions are really a product of the original reason for derision. so treating your first born healthy heir and wife slaying twisted curse boy with equality remains inexplicable, even just in name traditionalism terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mankytoes Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 I assumed it was Joanna's wish, otherwise it makes little sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSB Posted December 18, 2014 Author Share Posted December 18, 2014 Aegon is a Targ name as Edward, Louis and Charles are in our world, there is no much meaning behind it. They had good Aegons and bad Aegons. And Jon was not named by Rhaegar but by Ned, after Jon Arryn. And speaking of Jons, Connington also has a name that had little or nothing of the names of his family: Ronnet, Ronald, Raymund, Alynne, Alyn... Jon. Maybe his dad was drunk when he named him. good or bad is subjective and of no connection to my point. and to be so sure of jon being named by ned........the 'they' of the toj is finally resolved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 good or bad is subjective and of no connection to my point. and to be so sure of jon being named by ned........the 'they' of the toj is finally resolved. Eh? Ned named Jon, according to GRRM himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSB Posted December 18, 2014 Author Share Posted December 18, 2014 Eh? Ned named Jon, according to GRRM himself. i am not much of a back-story follower, or fan. but the guy that plays 'the author' could be exhibiting typical human traits such as mistake making,or dishonesty. in or out of character is probably an unanswerable question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 i am not much of a back-story follower, or fan. but the guy that plays 'the author' could be exhibiting typical human traits such as mistake making,or dishonesty. in or out of character is probably an unanswerable question. He was directly asked about this. He said t hat Ned named Jon, Tywin named Tyrion and Rhaella named Dany. If we are taking in consideration human mistakes and external narrative, I'd say that GRRM created Tyrion and named him Tyrion before he even conceived his whole family background. He simply liked the name and used it and adapted the rest to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aemond's Eye Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 He was directly asked about this. He said t hat Ned named Jon, Tywin named Tyrion and Rhaella named Dany. If we are taking in consideration human mistakes and external narrative, I'd say that GRRM created Tyrion and named him Tyrion before he even conceived his whole family background. He simply liked the name and used it and adapted the rest to it.This. Originally ASOIAF was perceived as a trilogy. At most GRRM intended to write these three books and some prequel novellas. The verses have grown longer, so to speak, and the entire mythos has too as a result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GallowsKnight Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 joanna was no lannister when named, and i do not know who janei is. and joy was a bastard. Looking through the history there's also a Jason Lannister and a Gerold Lannister. Joffrery could be considered a Lannister name (Cersei likely named him and Tommen is a known Lannister name) There's also a frequency for L-names, Lancel, Loren, Lefford etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 The known Lannisters during the timespan of the events described in A Song of Ice and Fire are: Tywin LannisterJoanna LannisterCersei LannisterJaime LannisterTyrion LannisterKevan LannisterLancel LannisterWillem LannisterMartyn LannisterJanei LannisterGenna LannisterTygett LannisterTyrek LannisterGerion LannisterDamon LannisterElla LannisterDamion LannisterLucion LannisterLanna LannisterStafford LannisterDaven LannisterCerenna LannisterMyrielle LannisterMargot Lannister Historical Members Loreon LannisterTybolt LannisterTyrion III LannisterGerold II LannisterGerold III LannisterJoffery LannisterCerion LannisterTommen I LannisterLoreon II LannisterTywell II LannisterLancel I LannisterLoreon III LannisterGerold LannisterLancel IV LannisterNorwin LannisterLoreon IV LannisterLoreon V LannisterTyrion II LannisterLancel V LannisterLelia LannisterTommen II LannisterLoren I LannisterLyman LannisterTymond LannisterJason LannisterTyland LannisterTya LannisterDamon LannisterTybolt LannisterCerelle LannisterGerold LannisterTywald LannisterTion LannisterTytos LannisterJason Lannister Make your own conclusions about naming habits of Lannisters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowHeart Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 That's like saying Ned considered Bran more of a Stark than Robb, because Brandon is a traditional Stark name and the name of his brother, whereas Robb is named after a Baratheon (I think) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 He was directly asked about this. He said t hat Ned named Jon, Tywin named Tyrion and Rhaella named Dany. If we are taking in consideration human mistakes and external narrative, I'd say that GRRM created Tyrion and named him Tyrion before he even conceived his whole family background. He simply liked the name and used it and adapted the rest to it. Actually Tyrion and Dany were granted the ambigious "most like" named by (Tyrion by his father; Dany by her mother). Ned naming Jon however was a rock solid statement, and not subject to debate in my opinion. I don't think GRRM would have said that the way he did if he was in any doubt at all about Ned naming Jon. Ned named Jon. End of tangent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danelle Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Though they sound similar, Tyrion was actually a name of some cruel Lannister king of old that did a lot of monstrosities and terrible things during his reign. I think either Tyrion or Cersei comments on it.... that said, I doubt Tywin meant the name kindly. I think that it was Tyrion the Tormentor a sadist King who tortured women. But there were other Kings named Tyrion I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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