Ned and Tywin, a Contrast in Leadership Styles

[Theon {HUNGRY WOLF} Stark]

How was he more effecitve?

The Ned: One children and a wife dead, the North lost.

Tywin: His family still rules the West, effectively in charge of the kingdom, children still alive.

Tywin : Killed by his own progeny, while taking a shit. Daughter striped naked and paraded for whole King's Landing to see, with the tacit approval of his own brother.

Ned : Men marching in a ceaseless snow storm to save his "Girl". Manderley cooking Freys into pies.

[Ser Greenseer]

Nope, underestimated massively. All you need to know is that Ned honestly thought LF was going to come through for him with that Gold Cloak bribe when you had to be very naïve to think that.

Let's face it: Ned was dumb.

What reason did Ned have to think Littlefinger would not come through for him? Littlefinger was a childhood friend of his wife and Ned trusts Catelyn's judgement. Littlefinger has been playing everyone, so to say Ned is dumb for trusting littlefinger is to say Tywin is dumb, Cersei is dumb, the Vale lords are dumb and everyone he has encountered is dumb which is obviously not the case. Ned just had poor luck and the handicap of being a good person amidst a sea of terrible people.

[John Doe]

Tywin : Killed by his own progeny, while taking a shit. Daughter striped naked and paraded for whole King's Landing to see, with the tacit approval of his own brother.

Ned : Men marching in a ceaseless snow storm to save his "Girl". Manderley cooking Freys into pies.

His house is still well and in charge of the Westerlands. The same cannot be said for Ned.

And most Northeneners didn't care until Stannis came North anyway.

[Chaircat Meow]

What reason did Ned have to think Littlefinger would not come through for him? Littlefinger was a childhood friend of his wife and Ned trusts Catelyn's judgement. Littlefinger has been playing everyone, so to say Ned is dumb for trusting littlefinger is to say Tywin is dumb, Cersei is dumb, the Vale lords are dumb and everyone he has encountered is dumb which is obviously not the case. Ned just had poor luck and the handicap of being a good person amidst a sea of terrible people.

Because LF had just told him he didn't want Stannis as king because he would lose his job and his power. Ned was asking LF to bite the hand that fed him and for no reason. So no, to say Ned was dumb is not to say Tywin was dumb for sending lF to the Vale because Tywin was not asking LF to turn on those buttering his bread.

[Gregor Clegane's head]

Tywin's legacy falls apart without him, his children are all hated and laughed at. He failed as a parent and it will lead to the destruction of all his life's work.

Ned's children are alive and well, loved by his lords and will do anything to reunite the family and make it strong again. Tywin's children are all at each other's throats and don't give any shits about the family name.

Ned's vassals are willing to die just to defend the Stark name. Tywin's vassals did jackshit to help Cersei when she was tossed in a dungeon and left to rot, their liege, no less. Boltons are the only ones who aren't in love with the Starks.

Ned's name inspires honour and loyalty, even his critics respect him. Tywin inspires no loyalty or love, no one fears a dead man. But you can love one.

Ned will go down in history as someone who was tragically killed by a nutjob king trying to save his daughter's life, by giving up his honour by lying.

Tywin will go down in history as the man who died on the shitter, killed by his own son. His family name falling to pieces not long after.

[Ser Greenseer]

Because LF had just told him he didn't want Stannis as king because he would lose his job and his power. Ned was asking LF to bite the hand that fed him and for no reason. So no, to say Ned was dumb is not to say Tywin was dumb for sending lF to the Vale because Tywin was not asking LF to turn on those buttering his bread.

Ned would have rewarded LF greatly for his help so its not a matter of having LF bite the hand that feeds him and anyways that is not the reason LF betrayed him, this was all part of the plan. LF doesn't care about being MoC he has his own agenda.

What Tywin did sending LF off to the Vale is actually really similar to what Ned did by sending him off to the gold cloaks. Both are instances where they are sending LF out of sight to try and get men to join their cause and both could have ended similarly with a betrayal.

[Chaircat Meow]

Ned would have rewarded LF greatly for his help so its not a matter of having LF bite the hand that feeds him and anyways that is not the reason LF betrayed him, this was all part of the plan. LF doesn't care about being MoC he has his own agenda.

Ned never offers LF a reward, despite realizing Slynt needed one. And, of course, he'll put Stannis in charge and Stannis won't reward LF and LF knows that.

LF absolutely does care about being MoC unless something better comes up.

What Tywin did sending LF off to the Vale is actually really similar to what Ned did by sending him off to the gold cloaks. Both are instances where they are sending LF out of sight to try and get men to join their cause and both could have ended similarly with a betrayal.

They are not at all similar. LF had no incentive to do what Ned wanted. He did have an incentive to stop the Vale joining Robb Stark though, as he'd then have lost his lordship of HH on which his standing had come to depend.

[SacredOrderOfGreenMen]

And now they're both dead.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

Tywin : Killed by his own progeny, while taking a shit. Daughter striped naked and paraded for whole King's Landing to see, with the tacit approval of his own brother.

And his Grandson is still King of Westeros, his daughter still Lady of the Westerlands.

Ned : Men marching in a ceaseless snow storm to save his "Girl". Manderley cooking Freys into pies.

Where were these men when he was imprisoned and his son needed troops to go South with him, where were these men when Winterfell was taken and his two youngest sons taken hostage? They did very little for the Ned until Stannis asked them.

[Roose on the Loose]

Tywin's first challenge as Lord of Casterly Rock was to deal with the fact that pops had made Lannister into a laughing stock. So for the rest of his life, he erred on the side of demanding respect. He was never cruel like Ramsey, but he had the stomach for whatever needed done.

Nonetheless, Tywin is hated in Dorne for the deaths of Elia and her children. In the Crownlands he's hated for the rape of KL.The Riverlands hate him for obvious reasons of rape and pillage. Northmen hate him for the Red Wedding and for just being himself.

People not taking him seriously is not Tywin's problem. Congratulations to him.

[Theon {HUNGRY WOLF} Stark]

His house is still well and in charge of the Westerlands. The same cannot be said for Ned.

And most Northeneners didn't care until Stannis came North anyway.

Really? You think his house is doing well? I see you have been reading different books.

As for North, Bolton coming North with Farya and Stannis leaving the Wall happened simultaneously

[Batbob45]

the thing is that after Tywin died, his family has gone downhill. Cersei has gone crazy and was jailed. Jaimie is somewhere, and Tyrion is wanted and had a need to kill Cersei. All the while Ned's living highborn kids has lost the stark's honor and that a good thing since their are living in Westeros.Arya is becoming like a small female Dexter. Sansa look like she might become Female LF, Bran is turning in to Groot or a powerful warg, and Rickon might become the most wild of the Stark and have the most dangerous direwolf.

[Theon {HUNGRY WOLF} Stark]

And his Grandson is still King of Westeros, his daughter still Lady of the Westerlands.

Where were these men when he was imprisoned and his son needed troops to go South with him, where were these men when Winterfell was taken and his two youngest sons taken hostage? They did very little for the Ned until Stannis asked them.

And Tywin's daughter was paraded naked through the streets of King's Landing, and Tywin's supposedly loyal brother sat on his ass, perhaps chuckling at Cersei's Walk of Shame.And his Eldest Grandson was poisoned at his own wedding by Tywin's supposed allies.

They were whooping Lannister asses in Riverlands and Westerlands. And Young Wolf had little to no time to gather as many men as he could and he still marched south of Moat Cailin with 18000 men. As for Stannis, his leaving the Wall and Bolton coming North with Farya happened simultaneously.

[the Scorpion Knight]

And his Grandson is still King of Westeros, his daughter still Lady of the Westerlands.

...

the question is for how long?

[thelittledragonthatcould]

And Tywin's daughter was paraded naked through the streets of King's Landing, and Tywin's supposedly loyal brother sat on his ass, perhaps chuckling at Cersei's Walk of Shame.And his Eldest Grandson was poisoned at his own wedding by Tywin's supposed allies.

They were whooping Lannister asses in Riverlands and Westerlands. And Young Wolf had little to no time to gather as many men as he could and he still marched south of Moat Cailin with 18000 men. As for Stannis, his leaving the Wall and Bolton coming North with Farya happened simultaneously.

And the Starks are an extinct House. Bran is a tree who controls people to do his bidding, Arya is a sociopath and Sansa is the plaything/sexkitten of the man who planned Neds downfall.

eeeek! Best not tell Dead Ned that his wife is a homicidal zombie.

[Ser Greenseer]

And the Starks are an extinct House. Bran is a tree who controls people to do his bidding, Arya is a sociopath and Sansa is the plaything/sexkitten of the man who planned Neds downfall.

eeeek! Best not tell Dead Ned that his wife is a homicidal zombie.

Exiled not extinct

[Theon {HUNGRY WOLF} Stark]

And the Starks are an extinct House. Bran is a tree who controls people to do his bidding, Arya is a sociopath and Sansa is the plaything/sexkitten of the man who planned Neds downfall.

eeeek! Best not tell Dead Ned that his wife is a homicidal zombie.

You think Starks are extinct House? 4 true born Stark siblings are still alive and kicking, and they won't kill and rape each other Like Lannister siblings.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

You think Starks are extinct House? 4 true born Stark siblings are still alive and kicking, and they won't kill and rape each other Like Lannister siblings.

They have family members still alive, their House is extinct. Ned raised his son Robb to be the first Stark to lose Winterfel and the North. Ouch!

[Ser Greenseer]

They have family members still alive, their House is extinct. Ned raised his son Robb to be the first Stark to lose Winterfel and the North. Ouch!

So are the Targaryens extinct as well?

[The Wolves]

They have family members still alive, their House is extinct. Ned raised his son Robb to be the first Stark to lose Winterfel and the North. Ouch!

The Starks will have Winterfell and the North in the end through Ned's bloodline. The Lannisters won't have the crown or I doubt Tywin's line will have Casterly Rock when all is said and done.