jon rhaegar stark Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 yes he is ... if Varys indeed cared about smallfolk and worked as a real master of whispers he would have gone and said who killed Jon arryn and why and not plot to bring dothraki Into westeros either .... he doesn't really care about small people just his own personal gain like all the other character who plays game ...there is no difference between LF and him because both play behind shadows and let others fight only to rise from those fights ...only difference is Varys knows what LF is capable of but LF has no clue about varys's game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Mac Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 I think Varys is given more of a pass because people believe his lines about wanting to serve the realm and protect innocents and yada yada. That might change when he's revealed to be just as politically motivated as anyone else. We have seen LF do more ruthless things. However, I don't doubt for a minute that Varys would do, or probably has done, things just as ruthless as LF. I agree with both of these statements.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bastard Son Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 They are both master manipulators but LF is worse. But i have a feeling we have only seen like 50% of Varys's power. LF and Varys should be major players in the last two books. Not saying the aren't big players so far. But i have this feeling LF will overplay his hand and lose his head,probably near the end of ASOIAF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annara Snow Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Worse than Littlefinger? No, because I don't think that's even possible, to begin with. But is she as bad as Littlefinger (or almost as bad)? Quite possible. However, his stated backstory (and I don't see the reason to doubt its veracity, people only tend to do that out of crackpottery) is certainly much more sympathetic than LF's "woe is me, I was only more privileged than 99% of Westeros, and my childhood was traumatic because I couldn't get the girl I was in love with" (I'm sure that's never happened to anyone else, right?) "so I decided to start a war and get thousands of people killed". My theory is that he was once a FM acolyte, like Arya, and castration (as the Kindly Man actually implies) is part of the initiation of the FM Why would they do that? It makes no sense. The only thing it would achieve is make the FM more conspicuous and make it more difficult for them to pretend to be just anyone... eunuchs tends to draw attention, especially in Westeros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManyFacedCloak Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 I think Varys is worse and a great player as compared to Petyr Baelish. Baelish seems to have planned things, but we don't know of any of his plans related to the supernatural aspect of the game. Meanwhile, Varys does have an experience with magic in his uncastrated days, and isn't ignorant of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tommen Baratheon Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Yeah, LF hurts some of the 'protagonists' of the story, and does some pretty god awful things on a personal level, but seeing as his whole agenda consists of trying to one-up the established structure and prove himself better than the nobility, I think he is better for all of westeros in the long term. The current system is beyond messed up, and he at least has a chance of upsetting that stagnancy a little.Varys just wants more of the same old monarchy, albeit maybe of a different colour. He's deluded himself with the whole notion of "for the realm".If he was really "for the realm" he wouldn't have killed Kevan. If he was really "for the realm" he wouldn't have driven Arys insane.If he was really "for the realm", he wouldn't have tried to facilitate decades of war just to get a better king (fAegon) on the throne.He is in it for himself, and petty vendettas against the targaryens, or in favor of brightflames/blackfyres. Although LF's goals seem a lot more petty (He lost Cat to a noble so he has to go get really powerful and become super 'cool' to show those darned wealthy nobles), they do more good "for the realm" than any of Varys murdering and scheming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reginald blackfield Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 I have never seen Varys as evil, I believe that he instead of Tyrion is the most morally neutral character in the series. Even if he is evil he certainly has more substance behind him than Littlefinger, who is entirely concerned on self betterment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tynned Lannistark Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Varys seems to me more sophisticated and mysterious than LF.It may be because we don't know him enough and don't understand his real motivation as well as LF. As for who is worse, its a bit hard to decide. I get the feeling LF just enjoys causing chaos while Varys is trying to achieve something, whatever it is , so I would say LF is worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guess who's back Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 no, sure Vary cut out the tounge of his birds but he doesn't go to LF level of abuse(What LF did to Jeyne Poole). What did LF really do to her? Varys also "trained" many children and even cut them. How can LF be so much worse in this case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viserys - The last dragon Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Exactly. Littlefinger has let us know that he wants everything - and not just possessions, influence, power, he wants to prove he's better than the higher-born. Varys is too much of a mystery to say whether he is just like or worse than LF. Could he truly have a noble (no pun intended) goal? Lets not forget that he is a noble himself. From birth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser94 Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 I don't think that Varys doing this "for the realm", I think that he and Mopatis had their own selfish motivations and that his motivations aren't that different from Baelish, he wants power, he want control, but at difference from Baelish he don't want to be in the front, exposing himself to everybody, he want to control everything from the shadows, being the puppeteer. That is the reason why he trainer the fake Aegon VI, to be face of the monarchy meanwhile he and Mopatis take all the decisions, and gain a lot of power while doing it. If Daenerys really want to be in control of her destiny, the first thing that she need to do is cut the head off of Mopatis and Varys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Much more worse than LF. In fact, when the true face of Varys will be revelaed, LF will seem like a saint compared to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyLittleFinger Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 We don't know half of the things Varys has done so it's easy to paint him as the lesser of the two evils right now. Also he constantly says the right things to POV's, while LF is contemptuous of promoting his moves as "For the greater good." Personally I admire his straightforwardness, he's an asshole out for himself and he knows it. Varys seems to need to justify his every move as "serving the realm," hell he justified killing Kevan Lannister as "serving the realm" because he was going to fix things and that "realm" isn't the "realm" he wants to serve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IdoTheChoombi Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 weather varys is a well intentioned extremist or a piece of shit is yet to be seen, but even if it's the latter I'm certain that littlefinger is worse, not because of silly reasons like the jayne poole thing.because he orchestrated the entire war of the five kings, knowing it will get a lot of people killed, he created chaos, death, and destruction just so he can gain more power.so i'm condeming LF to be worse because of the huge amount of smallfolk he killed, indirectly, but quite on purpose. not saying varys is a saint or anything, just that topping LF is quite the achievement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 weather varys is a well intentioned extremist or a piece of shit is yet to be seen, but even if it's the latter I'm certain that littlefinger is worse, not because of silly reasons like the jayne poole thing. because he orchestrated the entire war of the five kings, knowing it will get a lot of people killed, he created chaos, death, and destruction just so he can gain more power. so i'm condeming LF to be worse because of the huge amount of smallfolk he killed, indirectly, but quite on purpose. not saying varys is a saint or anything, just that topping LF is quite the achievement. Varys was trying to get the exact same chaos but at a different time when fAegon will be more ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Holy Goat Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 For now I'm inclined to believe that Littlefinger is worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Equilibrium Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Varys is worse, Littlefinger at least is not a hypocrite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batbob45 Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 What did LF really do to her? Varys also "trained" many children and even cut them. How can LF be so much worse in this case? LF sold Jeyne to Ramsey, he whipped her and .force her to be a prostitute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guard of the Rainking Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 So far Littlefinger has probably ruined more lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sullen Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 No, it would be extremely hard to be as bad as Littlefinger, the man commits various atrocities for himself, and himself only. Varys claims to act out of principle, which isn't as bad, or could very be committing atrocities for the good of someone else, which still isn't as bad as what Petyr does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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