House Dondarrion and House Selmy

[Twenty of House Goodmen]

Also, the Golden Company has already taken a number of high born Stormlander hostages. Fighting for Aegon is pretty much their only choice.

[Mithras]

The Dondarrions may even have Targaryen blood, if my assessment that Jena Dondarrion must have been Baelor Breakspear's cousin through either Baela or Rhaena Targaryen's children is correct. The reasoning behind that assumption is that it would make no sense to assume that Egg's marriage to Betha Blackwood would have caused massive opposition had he been at the top of the kine of succession if the Realm apparently was absolutely fine with the marriage of the Prince of Dragonstone to a Dondarrion. Unless we assume that Jena and Baelor was cousins, as no one could reasonably object if Daeron II continued to follow the incest policy and married his heir in lack of a sister to close cousin through the female line.

I think the real cause of the opposition to Egg's marriage to Betha might be related to Bloodraven. By that time, it seems like he was hated too much.

[Lord Rupert Connington]

Since Barristan's father was titled as the Knight of Harvest Hall, but the current head of House Selmy is a lord, then I can only deduce that the Selmies were landed knights up until a very recent time in their history.

[Lord Varys]

But Yandel phrases the thing as if the topic was connected to Betha's low nobility, not her connection to Bloodraven. Not to mention that nothing suggests that Bloodraven became more and more hated during his term as Hand. Egg and Betha married in 220 AC, a year before the death of Aerys I. If Bloodraven was hated by that time, Maekar most likely would not have allowed him to continue as Hand (or reappointed him later).

Not to mention that we know from Bloodraven and Bran themselves that the Blackfish was named after Bloodraven - who would have been born years after Bloodraven's trip to the Wall. He would not have been that hated - Blackfyre loyalists aside, of course.

[Mithras]

We know from TSS that BR was mostly accursed as a kinslayer and sorcerer but I don't remember Yandel bashing him with any of them.

Bloodraven being hated does not mean that everyone hates him. Blackwoods obviously worship him because they still name their children after him and keep a statue of his mother.

[Lord Varys]

TSS and TMK take place in 211 AC, at the very beginning of Aerys' reign when the Blackfyre cause is still strong in Westeros. His reputation may actually have bettered over the years, just as Maekar and Bloodraven eventually reconciled. Not to mention that I don't think Bloodraven was actually all that hated among the nobility.

[Ramsay's Penguins]

Stannis's army is not mostly storm lords after Renly's death, but not mostly reach lords either. 5000 Narrow Sea lords (minus Sunglasses and Rambton) some other Crownlords (Follard, Chyterring, Farring, Massey), the reach lords mentioned being Florents (1500~ after Bitterbridge) Willum, both Fossoways, Varner, Meadows and iirc Crane? So that's 12'000~ non stormlords.

As for stormlords, it's Errol, Estermont, Morrigen, Caron, Staedmon, Fell, Wylde, Sweet, Peasebury, Horpe, Bolling, Wensington, Herston etc. Swann sent some too. Hasty had 100. Connington.

Absent, were Dondarrion (Beric stuck in Riverlands), Tarth, Penrose, Tarly, Tyrell, Oakheart, Rowan and Hightower, who could easily double his army size.

Because of this most stormlords are still intact. Penrose, Dondarrion, Tarth have all done nothing. And Selmy, Mertyns, Cafferen, Trant (decent sized lords) aren't mentioned either.

[Hammermen's Revolt]

Well then we should go back to King Floki's earlier question. How has fAegon been able to conquer the Stormlands with less than five thousand men of the Golden Company?

Perhaps because these numbers are not standing armies: they're possible armies to raise as levies and conscription from the towns and villages. If there isn't a lord (or man-at-arms in name of a lord) to raise these armies, the multitude of them would be simply farmers: i.e., not resisting at all. At least, that is how I understood these numbers.

[Eden-Mackenzie]

Even though two of the important supporting characters are from these respective houses, we don't actually know or hear much at all about the houses that they come from. They're both marcher lordships, so they're among the elite warriors in Westeros, but how strong are they exactly? Did they participate in the War of the Five Kings? Who do they support? And who will take over House Dondarrion now that its last lord is dead?

The only mention I remember of Selmy that wasn't directly related to Barristan was when Renly mentions Selmy in the list of names that will make him king when he meets with Stannis outside of Storm's End. Earlier Renly mentioned he was saving the blue cloak for Barristan and seemed genuinely upset/surprised he hadn't shown up, so I think it is safe to say the Selmy soldiers started the war with Renly, but after that we really have no idea. Perhaps they went home after their liege lord was killed, maybe the current head of House Selmy was thinking along the same lines as Barristan and wants to support the Targaryens again?

[~~~~~~~~~~~~~]

If there is a House Selmy then why did Cersei & Joff offer him his own house?

[GallowsKnight]

If there is a House Selmy then why did Cersei & Joff offer him his own house?

Selmy was the heir but he gave it up to be Kingsguard, so his cousin inherited it. Joff was offering a "hall to die in, and men to bury him".

[Ramsay's Penguins]

If there is a House Selmy then why did Cersei & Joff offer him his own house?

There was already a House Foote yet, Philip Foote wa given Nightsong to found House Foote of Nightsong. He would just be a landed knight (weak one) sworn to the Lannisters. Which they'd get back, since he had no heirs and was unlikely to make any.

[Lee-Sensei]

House Dondarrion is one of the strongest Houses in the Stormlands. Not the strongest, but damn strong either way. Between 2,500 and 5,000 men, which is damn strong for the Stormlands with their total of about 30,000.

The main strength remained at home. Actually, all their strength but Beric and his ~20 guards for the Tourney remained at home. The heir hasn't been named yet.

House Selmy is damn unimportant. Minor marcher Lords at best.

House Selmy is one of the greatest actually.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

House Selmy is one of the greatest actually.

The only hint for that is the appendix of Game, but that's been proven wrong quite often already.

[Lee-Sensei]

The only hint for that is the appendix of Game, but that's been proven wrong quite often already.

The World of Ice and Fire list them as one of the greatest Marcher Lords along with Caron, Dondarrion and Swann.

[Nyrhex]

The World of Ice and Fire list them as one of the greatest Marcher Lords along with Caron, Dondarrion and Swann.

The world book lists all 4 known Marcher Lords. Don't forget that it was jointly written by fans as mostly filler. The superlative "one of the greatests" has no backing in history, the current story, or any SSM or semi-canon sources but this one line. They have played no role at any point in the history of Westeros save with Barristan. It's a Marcher house, and so is added with the other known 3 because that is what we know about the Dornish Marches. But naming it one of the greatest is akin to calling house Forrester one of the greatest Northen houses based on the Telltale game.

[Ramsay's Penguins]

The world book lists all 4 known Marcher Lords. Don't forget that it was jointly written by fans as mostly filler. The superlative "one of the greatests" has no backing in history, the current story, or any SSM or semi-canon sources but this one line. They have played no role at any point in the history of Westeros save with Barristan. It's a Marcher house, and so is added with the other known 3 because that is what we know about the Dornish Marches. But naming it one of the greatest is akin to calling house Forrester one of the greatest Northen houses based on the Telltale game.

While sometimes I doubt the canonicness of the Worldbook, I see no reason to doubt this number. The marches are a big area. The Caron's and the Swanns are pretty big rivals but the same could also be said for Dondarrion. Definitely top 10 most powerful stormlords, or at least influential. There one of the main marcher lords and those four lords are all of reasonable power. Like 10'000 men from the Marches alone. For a region no more then 35'000, that is impressive.

The line itself is backing enough. Doesn't require SSM's or that sort of thing.

[Lee-Sensei]

The world book lists all 4 known Marcher Lords. Don't forget that it was jointly written by fans as mostly filler. The superlative "one of the greatests" has no backing in history, the current story, or any SSM or semi-canon sources but this one line. They have played no role at any point in the history of Westeros save with Barristan. It's a Marcher house, and so is added with the other known 3 because that is what we know about the Dornish Marches. But naming it one of the greatest is akin to calling house Forrester one of the greatest Northen houses based on the Telltale game.

RP said it all. We don't know the whole history of the Stormlands so we can't say that their role has been insignificant. What we do know, is they were grouped with some of the most powerful Houses of the Vale.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Then where is Lord Selmy? Where are the Selmy swords? They are never mentioned. Not in Renly's host, not in Stannis' host, not in any history, never.

Outside of Barristan himself, zero.

[Ramsay's Penguins]

Then where is Lord Selmy? Where are the Selmy swords? They are never mentioned. Not in Renly's host, not in Stannis' host, not in any history, never.

Outside of Barristan himself, zero.

I wanna scream it's a trap, but that'd be no fun.

Lord Selmy is Arstan, Lord of Harvest Hall. I guess it's in a flatter region of the marches, since wheat isn't exactly a high altitude crop.

They aren't in Renly's host correct. Nor is Mertyns, Rogers, Cafferen, Trant, Fell etc. yet later on Staedmon is, although he isn't mentioned initially. It could be that they're there, but not mentioned.

No one was in Stannis's host. No Dondarrion or Penrose or Tarth or Swann (ok one Swann), and still no Trant, Mertyns etc.

Renly was charismatic, but many of those following had therese doubts. The Hightowers, Olenna, Tarly. Renly had like, not all the support of the Reach or stormlands. No Redwyne, and Hightower onyl sent his bannermen.

Stannis had very little in the Reach, and only about half of the stormlords.

Probably a cautious house who are playing there cards close, or they are a house who fought bitterly for the Targaryens and lots a lot of their former power, like the Darry's or Conningotns.