Would the High Septon crown Dany?

[Lord Varys]

The Faith has problems with both incest (Maegor's proposed marriage to his niece Rhaena, the marriage of Aenys' heir Aegon to his sister Rhaena) and polygamy (Maegor's multiple wives).

Aegon VI has the advantage of not being born of incest, whereas Dany herself is a child of an incestuous union (and may already have multiple husbands when she arrives in Westeros).

But she could still be crowned and anointed by a High Septon - but only by one of her choosing, following her victory in the field. Aegon VI, on the other, may actually be embraced by the sparrows as the savior they prayed for...

[Jon's Queen Consort]

I don't think so. If she killed FAegon and lead a horde of barbarians to *take what is hers by fire and blood" I believe that the HS will declare her as a kinslayer, kingslayer and an enemy. Especially since by the end she most possible will have lose at least 2 out of 3 dragons and her last one will be too weak to defend her against everyone else.

[Wordsmith1]

I think eventually the High Septon would, yes.

Eventually when you get so powerful and so popular that everyone ALREADY treats you like a ruler that you aren't officially are yet religious organizations often concede to crowning you simply because if they do not they look totally irrelevant; if you go on ruling without them lending their unnecessary approval you can go on ruling while ignoring them entirely.

Ask guys like Charlemange and Napoleon, both of whom had the political power to be Emperors without being crowned by the Pope, who officially was the only authority who was allowed crown anyone in Europe to that rank.

Both of them controlled Europe politically long before they were crowned, so eventually the church made it official rather then look petty and insufficently important in that new era.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

I think eventually the High Septon would, yes.

Eventually when you get so powerful and so popular that everyone ALREADY treats you like a ruler that you aren't officially are yet religious organizations often concede to crowning you simply because if they do not they look totally irrelevant; if you go on ruling without them lending their unnecessary approval you can go on ruling while ignoring them entirely.

Ask guys like Charlemange and Napoleon, both of whom had the political power to be Emperors without being crowned by the Pope, who officially was the only authority who was allowed crown anyone in Europe to that rank.

Both of them controlled Europe politically long before they were crowned, so eventually the church made it official rather then look petty and insufficently important in that new era.

So you believe that everyone will accept Dany as the ruler?

[Lord Varys]

Actually, Charlemagne was the first emperor ever to be crowned by the Pope, since he was the first emperor in the West since the downfall of the western half of the Roman Empire. Charlemagne's coronation set the precedent which enabled future popes to claim that they were above kings and emperors because they 'made them'. Back then, technically only the Byzantine Emperor could have made Charlemagne (co-)emperor in the West.

And Napoleon reduced the Pope to nothing but a crown-holding by-stander, as he actually literally crowned himself.

The fact that the Targaryen kings from Aegon onwards allowed the High Septons to crown them, gave them power over the kings, rather than the other way around. Back in Aegon's day the power of the Faith was to strong to be ignored, but the kings after Jaehaerys should actually have changed that custom.

[SeanF]

Actually, Charlemagne was the first emperor ever to be crowned by the Pope, since he was the first emperor in the West since the downfall of the western half of the Roman Empire. Charlemagne's coronation set the precedent which enabled future popes to claim that they were above kings and emperors because they 'made them'. Back then, technically only the Byzantine Emperor could have made Charlemagne (co-)emperor in the West.

And Napoleon reduced the Pope to nothing but a crown-holding by-stander, as he actually literally crowned himself.

The fact that the Targaryen kings from Aegon onwards allowed the High Septons to crown them, gave them power over the kings, rather than the other way around. Back in Aegon's day the power of the Faith was to strong to be ignored, but the kings after Jaehaerys should actually have changed that custom.

The High Septons (from the time of the Faith Militant uprising to the rise of the High Sparrow) aren't particularly powerful. I don't think there's any King who would regard the coronation as implying that the High Septon grants him his kingdom.

[Wordsmith1]

So you believe that everyone will accept Dany as the ruler?

Lots of people don't like Dany, and even to me she's just another character I don't especially feel one way or another about.

However in-universe she's insanely charismatic. The people she manages to sway to get side get CRAZY loyal to her, and she definitely has a great deal of appeal to the common folk.

With Cersei poised (thanks to Varys, the prick) to go batshit insane and begin burning down the country in her paranoia, the country will be desperate for anyone who looks like a halfway legitimate ruler. Young Griff and Connington have the problem of coming completely out of left field for everyone, so nobody really knows if anything they claim is true.

Dany on the other hand people have been hearing about since the 2nd book even in Westeros; a beautiful young Queen with three dragons who frees slaves and sacks entire civilizations in a matter of months despite having no army who bears Targaryen blood and treats the common folk extremely well and punishes cruel lords.

When you think about it, she sounds like a fairy tale heroine come to life, and the Seven Kingdoms are in desperate need of fairy tale hero or heroine to make things better, even if the reality is somewhat less spotless.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Lots of people don't like Dany, and even to me she's just another character I don't especially feel one way or another about.

However in-universe she's insanely charismatic. The people she manages to sway to get side get CRAZY loyal to her, and she definitely has a great deal of appeal to the common folk.

With Cersei poised (thanks to Varys, the prick) to go batshit insane and begin burning down the country in her paranoia, the country will be desperate for anyone who looks like a halfway legitimate ruler. Young Griff and Connington have the problem of coming completely out of left field for everyone, so nobody really knows if anything they claim is true.

Dany on the other hand people have been hearing about since the 2nd book even in Westeros; a beautiful young Queen with three dragons who frees slaves and sacks entire civilizations in a matter of months despite having no army who bears Targaryen blood and treats the common folk extremely well and punishes cruel lords.

When you think about it, she sounds like a fairy tale heroine come to life, and the Seven Kingdoms are in desperate need of fairy tale hero or heroine to make things better, even if the reality is somewhat less spotless.

You mean the barbarians Dothraki and the slaves of Essos which she set them free. However there are no slaves in Westeros and I seriously doubt that the small folk will like her after her barbarian followers will destroy them(the small folK).

[Mal Malenkirk]

I don't believe the current High Septon would ever accept Dany as is. He doesn't seem the type to compromise. He's Stannis-like, so to speak. So either Dany would have to make all the compromises (something she's grown digusted of in the wake of the Mereen fiasco) or kill tons of people starting with the High Sparrow and place a pliable High Septon in power.

[Lord Varys]

Well, but the High Septon can decide who 'the rightful king' is in case of a struggle for succession, and considering that Aegon himself only counted his reign for the day of his Oldtown coronation, it would be entirely justified to say that Aegon received his kingship from the High Septon. Politically, this no longer had much meaning after the Faith's military power was broken, but the High Septon still wielded a lot of symbolic power, and seemed to be more exalted and dignified than the king (which is stressed by the fact that the High Septon not the king is using majestic plural, and by the fact that Cersei is actually accused of deicide for commanding the murder of the previous High Septon).

We can see how much authority the office of the High Septon holds by the rapid speed the High Sparrow actual acquires real power. The office of the High Septon was apparently always very powerful - what made it weak and biddable were mostly the individuals holding the office, not so much the changes made to the office itself.

[The Bastard of Walton]

This High Septon works for Varys, so if she agrees to marry Aegon then yes I think he'd crown her.

[Wordsmith1]

You mean the barbarians Dothraki and the slaves of Essos which she set them free. However there are no slaves in Westeros and I seriously doubt that the small folk will like her after her barbarian followers will destroy them(the small folK).

Of course there's no slaves in Westeros.

That's why the Queen killed dozens of babies in the capitol with zero penalty for it, why the Riverlands, previoisly one of the most populated and fertile regions of the Seven Kingdoms was set ablaze; why the Ironborn reave and slay everyone, everywhere and the crown does nothing, why we hear people in Arya's chapter's complaining that they don't even understand half of why this shit is happening and how desperate they are just to SURVIVE the War of Five Kings, why a mad child was allowed to rule and torture the common folk without any problems, and why nobody seems to care if they all live or die at all in this time of chaos.

No, there are no slaves in Westeros.

But when your life burns and there's nothing you can do no matter what to change it and everyone who's theoretical job it is to keep you safe because you farm his land seems more interested in killing his enemies and brutalizing you as a terror campaign against said enemies, you sure as shit aren't a free man.

The choices the people of Westeros right now have are "live in perpetual fear and terror for their lives" and "die horribly", and even that choice kinda gets taken away from them a lot.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Of course there's no slaves in Westeros.

That's why the Queen killed dozens of babies in the capitol with zero penalty for it, why the Riverlands, previoisly one of the most populated and fertile regions of the Seven Kingdoms was set ablaze; why the Ironborn reave and slay everyone, everywhere and the crown does nothing, why we hear people in Arya's chapter's complaining that they don't even understand half of why this shit is happening and how desperate they are just to SURVIVE the War of Five Kings, why a mad child was allowed to rule and torture the common folk without any problems, and why nobody seems to care if they all live or die at all in this time of chaos.

Those happen because there are no slaves?

\No, there are no slaves in Westeros.

But when your life burns and there's nothing you can do no matter what to change it and everyone who's theoretical job it is to keep you safe because you farm his land seems more interested in killing his enemies and brutalizing you as a terror campaign against said enemies, you sure as shit aren't a free man.

Only if Dany comes to Westeros with at least with her Dothraki then her people will do what they know best; pillaging, stealing and raping.

The choices the people of Westeros right now have are "live in perpetual fear and terror for their lives" and "die horribly", and even that choice kinda gets taken away from them a lot.

Sorry but Dany will be even worse; die horribly by the barbarians that Dany will bring with her.

[TerrorVoid]

The High Septons (from the time of the Faith Militant uprising to the rise of the High Sparrow) aren't particularly powerful. I don't think there's any King who would regard the coronation as implying that the High Septon grants him his kingdom.

Because known HS were bought.

[SeanF]

Of course there's no slaves in Westeros.

That's why the Queen killed dozens of babies in the capitol with zero penalty for it, why the Riverlands, previoisly one of the most populated and fertile regions of the Seven Kingdoms was set ablaze; why the Ironborn reave and slay everyone, everywhere and the crown does nothing, why we hear people in Arya's chapter's complaining that they don't even understand half of why this shit is happening and how desperate they are just to SURVIVE the War of Five Kings, why a mad child was allowed to rule and torture the common folk without any problems, and why nobody seems to care if they all live or die at all in this time of chaos.

No, there are no slaves in Westeros.

But when your life burns and there's nothing you can do no matter what to change it and everyone who's theoretical job it is to keep you safe because you farm his land seems more interested in killing his enemies and brutalizing you as a terror campaign against said enemies, you sure as shit aren't a free man.

The choices the people of Westeros right now have are "live in perpetual fear and terror for their lives" and "die horribly", and even that choice kinda gets taken away from them a lot.

I think there are people who will be filled with hope when Daenerys lands in Westeros. There are others who will be absolutely terrified.

If, as most readers believe, Dany leads vast hordes of Dothraki into Western Essos, I imagine there'll be thousands of refugees fleeing across the Narrow Sea, bringing tales of horror with them.

[Wordsmith1]

I think there are people who will be filled with hope when Daenerys lands in Westeros. There are others who will be absolutely terrified.

If, as most readers believe, Dany leads vast hordes of Dothraki into Western Essos, I imagine there'll be thousands of refugees fleeing across the Narrow Sea, bringing tales of horror with them.

Seeing as the Dothraki as a political entity haven't shown up since the first book, I'm thinking she won't have any Dothraki but her little bodyguard cadre.

Everyone is SO certain she's gonna Ghengis Khan the Dothraki up, but frankly their evidence is thin as shit for it, and seems mostly them following the exact wrong train of thought that the book is presenting to people so far.

[Mal Malenkirk]

When you think about it, she sounds like a fairy tale heroine come to life, and the Seven Kingdoms are in desperate need of fairy tale hero or heroine to make things better, even if the reality is somewhat less spotless.

Martin has been deconstructing that.

Dany has been trying to protect her 'children', but that protection only goes as far as she can grasp. The small folk who stayed in Astapor for exemple, have faced even more hardship in the wake of her passage than they did under the reign of the 'good masters'. To be clear; Life in Astapor under the Good Masters was abysmal but it has since become even worse as Quentyn's POV showed us. The small folk who followed her to Meereen enjoyed some bit of plot protection because the defenders of Meereen proved too stupid to lock the backdoor which prevented the civilians who followed Dany from starving during a prolonged siege (the normal outcome of such a silly move) but it seems like the reality hammer will fall any time now. Dany of late has been thinking that Dragons do not plant trees. Well, then Dragons can't take care of the small folk. If she comes invading in Westeros, she'll be one more warlord visiting destruction on the small folk, I expect.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

She has three dragons. If by the time she gets to Westeros she can control them all and make them successful weapons to fight on her side, then she makes the rules. She can make them all walk on their hands for the rest of their lives if she wants to.

Pretty much like when the Faith said they would "meditate" about whether fight or not Aegon and his Dragons, and then told after one night of praying, their Gods tell them to surrender. Yeah... their 'Gods' tell them to surrender.

[Wordsmith1]

Martin has been deconstructing that.

Dany has been trying to protect her 'children', but that protection only goes as far as she can grasp. The small folk who stayed in Astapor for exemple, have faced even more hardship in the wake of her passage than they did under the reign of the 'good masters'. To be clear; Life in Astapor under the Good Masters was abysmal but it has since become even worse as Quentyn's POV showed us. The small folk who followed her to Meereen enjoyed some bit of plot protection because the defenders of Meereen proved too stupid to lock the backdoor which prevented the civilians who followed Dany from starving during a prolonged siege (the normal outcome of such a silly move) but it seems like the reality hammer will fall any time now. Dany of late has been thinking that Dragons do not plant trees. Well, then Dragons can't take care of the small folk. If she comes invading in Westeros, she'll be one more warlord visiting destruction on the small folk, I expect.

I know that, which is why I mentioned it earliee on that exact post you quoted.

She SOUNDS like a fairy tale heroine just like Robb sounds like the ideal boy king, but Westeros is a world where every pleasant fantasy trope is brutally deconstructed as the narrative goes on, yet in-univetse everyone actually still seems to believe that stuff, or maybe they WANT to believe it.

They'll hail her as a savior when she arrives, but the political reality of what her arrival means will set in eventually, just like the political realities of crowning a teenage boy the King in the North eventually were shown eventually.

Honestly, it's kind of amazing the Tales of Dunk and Egg play the whole chivalry and friendship angle in such a straightforward manner given how cynical and deconstructive the rest of the Westeros stories are.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

First: Howland Reed as the High Septon is still ridiculous. It doesn't even merit a response other than to reiterate how nonsense it is.

As to the question, I think Aegon will beat Dany to the punch and get the endorsement of the Faith. The smallfolk are a huge untapped resource of manpower, and I think that Aegon will benefit. It also fits in with the mummer's dragon vision, with the crowds cheering. Aegon is going populist.

As for dragons, I seem to remember a crazed crowd of nobodies killing a bunch of them. What was the narrative reasoning behind that anecdote, I wonder? Dany is not Aegon I and her dragons aren't his.