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LmL

The Astronomy Behind the Legends of Planetos

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Goddamn right he had Ice with him. That was some highly, highly meaningful shit that played out right there at the ToJ. I think it was a bit of a re-enactment of sorts...

I’ll check out the link. I love all the good threads that people are linking to here... this is exactly what I was hoping for. :cheers:

I wondered about this myself. As well as the implications for the future. Ice triumphed over Dawn and because of that Jon is a Snow. Winter is Coming.

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I agree about the eyes of the show!Others/WWs. Their eyes look like they could power a time-travel device.

I wonder if the eyes of the Others/WWs are supposed to replicate human eyes with a pupil and iris, or be something altogether different.

Thanks. Happy to help. :cheers:

I always forget about that one! Red, blue, and green. Like the forks of the Trident. Like you say, 3 in 1. Or maybe 3 as 1.

Hmm, I think this thread is going to inspire some interesting discussions. :)

Depends remember that 100 pages of notes I mentioned? Though what I said about proto Others is off. Wrong timeline the wall already existed. But in the way it seems the proto Valyrians must have learned something from Asshai, the first men probably learned something from the Others. In the way the first men learned from the children they may have learned from Others as well.

I have speculated before that Bran the builder flipped sides. That is why not only could he build a wall of ice, which would probably require some ice magic, he was able to put spells in it to prevent the Others from passing.

There was this old idea I had that the Children and First men were not the oly ones on the isle of faces that the Others signed the pact as well. I suspect the gods eye which has the trees and the water is also a dormant volcano. Freeze the water and you got ice, the trees for the children and fire from the earth which we see something similar at Winterfell. The trident also merges right by the gods eye.

As for the green star, Dunks moment of creating his sigil is very intresting, he is among the trees, there is singing and children are singers, the etting son, (the children are in the twilight of there time, the sun is setting for them.) and of course a green falling star. Never forget the green star, he didn't put it on a sigil for nothing and Dunk introduces us to Bloodraven. It was foreshadowing.

You have no idea how many times I have been over all this. I just can't get the right time line to figure out what started it all. It's really intresting stuff though there are alot of gaps and grey areas. I talk about it almost everyday with MoIaF.

3 stars and 2 stones and yes there is a shit ton to talk about and Op is in for a long ride. Because it just does not end.

Like Vaes Tolloro. 3 small cities, one gets compared to a moon he mentions that in the Op. You got the fire opal at another city and the spears and skulls at another and you might thing it relates too astorlogical events. Don't ignore the red sand either, or how it all started. Dragons from stone. Remember 3 to 1, you just mentioned. 3 little cities to one city with 3 walls. 3 to 1. Then from 1 city with three walls to 3 slaver cities. What did she do in Vaes Tolloro? What she find? She rested, and had peach from the peach tree.What does she do in Merreen? She rests, and what is there? Another fruit tree, and she even eats one of those. From 3 to 1 to 3. Then what happens where does she end up? Well she goes from the red sands of the fighting pits and flys off on 1 dragon and ends up at a place she names dragon stone. Oh and she lost hair in the red sand pits. Again. That's twice. Oh almost forgot the seasons changed. Yep every time she inverts the seasons change. Then what does she do? She goes for a walk. What did she do before she hatched dragons? She was in the grass sea, and she is in the grass sea. Oh look Dothraki. Dragonstone, Dragons from stone, Sort of Dragon Stone, pretty soon one of these days, it will be dragonstone again.

To go forward you must go back. 3 into 1 and 1 into 3. Why do think I got such a hard on for the trident after you wrote that theory about it and the colors? You ever notice something about Jon? He is both a 3rd and a 1st child. Rhaegars third, Lyanna's first. Even Jon has some weird things like that. Got shot by Yiggy once, but Got stabbed three times and when that happend he happen to be at a scene that was a mirror of the Tower of Joy.

The thing that really perplexis me is that Jon and Dany are such tight inverse parallels that her father should in fact only have one kid. Which would appear not to be true. Not that it matters cause it does not seem to affect 3 into 1 and 1 into 3 at all. Just keeps happening and it all seems to come down to 2 rocks maybe 3, and 3 stars. Though I wonder if there are three rocks that came from one moon. I may very well hate magic.

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Ser Creighton... where to begin. First, I can hear a certain note in your tone of speech there... I can tell you’ve been over a lot of this, as you say. You made me chuckle a bit. That 3 into 1 and 1 into 3 is highly significant (I keep using that word), and I believe that I can explain why.

I am beginning to feel that maybe I should have released the whole damn thing at once. Well, at the least, the conversation has been outstanding. You’ll have to check back for part 2 and see what you think.

I have to go to bed... I wonder where this will be tomorrow.

P.S. don’t hate magic, magic loves you :)

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In Closing

To sum up the hypothesis so far: the legend of the forging of Lightbringer originated with a celestial event of great magnitude which occurred in ancient times, the destruction of a second moon by a comet. Lightbringer is, among other things, a metaphor for the comet. It was forged in water and ice as it entered the inner solar system, it was forged by the lion when it was split in half as it rounded the sun, and it was forged in the heart of Nissa Nissa when it struck the elf moon and exploded in a truly gigantic fireball. The debris from the destruction of the second moon and it's impacts on Planetos triggered the Long Night, and is responsible for the irregular seasons. The remaining half of the comet is the red comet which we see in the current story, and it may be coming back to strike the remaining moon.

IMHO, Just no.

Ain't like 'planetary explosions' are impossible in theory, but there must be some preconditions for it to be likely.

If one imagines a moon the size of ours, its explosion would result in at least more than a half of its mass to come back to earth. No matter the math, the pieces falling on earth wouldn't be all so tiny to vaporize in atmosphere, but rather they would hit the surface of earth and cause major TSUNAMI, EARTHQUAKES and an ICE AGE for nearly a MILLION years. [which btw, is what theoretically happened with Dinosaurs when an asteroid way less massive than the moon hit earth]

Thus, if your theory is true, there would be no human being around to tell the story at all.

Even if you imagine a way smaller moon, so small to be just a dot in the space, you have problems. For a comet impact to not be absorbed at all [nor simply push the moon out of his trajectory], the impacting object must be around the same size of the impacted object. One would wonder what are the odds that an object has just the right size and just the right trajectory to hit a very tiny object instead of being deflected and fall to the much more massive Planetos or the other moon already around. It would be extremely unlikely, considered that the exploded moon must have had an ignorable gravitational force. Moreover, to our modern standard, such object wouldn't have the required stats to be even called 'moon'. I'm also half positive that it wouldn't be able to be both so 'tiny' and 'near' to the planet to be visible and not fall on Planetos for billions of years until hit by an external object. For such a trajectory to be possible, it would have needed a quite [unrealistic?] high orbitational speed.

Another pitfall is that if an explosion occurred, there would be way more frequent meteorite showers hitting Planetos for quite a long time [every year!], given that by inertia the largest part of the mass wouldn't go around on its own. It seems a bit counter-intuitive, but - according to some theory - we have an example of that in our own solar system: the belt of meteorites is more or less exactly where there was an exploded planet.

For me it's a big no.

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This makes a lot of sense. I have seen a lot of 6’s in the middle of all the light bringer comet symbolism, and I couldn’t figure it. Where did you get that the moon takes 30 days to orbit planetos? That makes a whole damn lot of sense, as does the 30+50+100=180. Hat-tip earned, ser. Very helpful.

Edit: that’s a very big hat tip. :bowdown:

Youre welcome, i can only hope it's helfull in youre work, and i do like that you take attention on "astral matters", i find that they have been quite overlooked, and ill continue to follow youre work despite some of my own perceptions, ill try to get the best out of youre work. ;)

Here are a few links to some relating topics of mine in the past:

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/109533-astral-elements-in-the-lightbringer-creation-sage/

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/109101-the-hornedcheshire-moon-and-questions-relating/

The fact that it takes 30 days for the moon to revolve Planetos is rather easy to prove. It's in the Arya chapters. Arya meets the kindly man every 30 days at the house of black and white when the moon is dark. I am to lazy to bury up the exact passage in the books right now but you can deduce it with 100% certainty from the books.

And do take note of the FM's worship of the moon and it's phases. And the perculiarity that they have a certain affinity with a "darkened moon".

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IMHO, Just no.

Ain't like 'planetary explosions' are impossible in theory, but there must be some preconditions for it to be likely.

If one imagines a moon the size of ours, its explosion would result in at least more than a half of its mass to come back to earth. No matter the math, the pieces falling on earth wouldn't be all so tiny to vaporize in atmosphere, but rather they would hit the surface of earth and cause major TSUNAMI, EARTHQUAKES and an ICE AGE for nearly a MILLION years. [which btw, is what theoretically happened with Dinosaurs when an asteroid way less massive than the moon hit earth]

Thus, if your theory is true, there would be no human being around to tell the story at all.

Even if you imagine a way smaller moon, so small to be just a dot in the space, you have problems. For a comet impact to not be absorbed at all [nor simply push the moon out of his trajectory], the impacting object must be around the same size of the impacted object. One would wonder what are the odds that an object has just the right size and just the right trajectory to hit a very tiny object instead of being deflected and fall to the much more massive Planetos or the other moon already around. It would be extremely unlikely, considered that the exploded moon must have had an ignorable gravitational force.

Another pitfall is that if an explosion occurred, there would be way more frequent meteorite showers hitting Planetos for quite a long time [every year!], given that by inertia the largest part of the mass wouldn't go around on its own. It seems a bit counter-intuitive, but - according to some theory - we have an example of that in our own solar system: the belt of meteorites is more or less exactly were there was an exploded planet.

For me it's a big no.

That’s cool, I figured some would disagree. You may be right.

I am in fact imagining a smaller moon, and I think the text is implying that many times, and I do think it was farther away. I also think the two moons were in a double eclipse alignment (I think I can prove that), with the soon-to-be-exploded elf moon being closest to the sun. The existing moon would have taken some of the impact. Whatever debris arrived on planets would take two forms: smaller fragments, which would in fact burn up in the atmosphere, as most meteoroids do, and it is likely a few pieces would be large enough to make it through the atmosphere and cause impact. Theres all range of sizes possible, and each size of meteor would do a different amount of damage. I am hypothesizing something smaller than the Dinosaurs impact, but big enough to darken the skies for a few years. That’s absolutely possible, as far as I know, and has happened before many times i various degrees. I think the LN was an evolutionary bottleneck, when many of the ancient species were decimated or wiped out entirely. The human survivors eventually came to dominate the post-LN planet.

As for the meter showers, they may have had them for a long time after the LN, it was 10,000 years ago and they didn’t have writing. Common meteor showers wouldn’t have been that noteworthy after a giant explosion and semi-nuclear winter. The exploded moon I am imagining is much smaller than a planet, so nowhere near the debris that we have in the asteroid belt. BUT, since you mention it, there actually is evidence of just such a debris field....

I appreciate your very reasoned and civil disagreement, as well as your constructive criticism. Thanks for the comments.

I might have to stop commenting here so I can just finish part 2, since so many people have a good idea about where this is going.

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Youre welcome, i can only hope it's helfull in youre work, and i do like that you take attention on "astral matters", i find that they have been quite overlooked, and ill continue to follow youre work despite some of my own perceptions, ill try to get the best out of youre work. ;)

Here are a few links to some relating topics of mine in the past:

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/109533-astral-elements-in-the-lightbringer-creation-sage/

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/109101-the-hornedcheshire-moon-and-questions-relating/

The fact that it takes 30 days for the moon to revolve Planetos is rather easy to prove. It's in the Arya chapters. Arya meets the kindly man every 30 days at the house of black and white when the moon is dark. I am to lazy to bury up the exact passage in the books right now but you can deduce it with 100% certainty from the books.

And do take note of the FM's worship of the moon and it's phases. And the perculiarity that they have a certain affinity with a "darkened moon".

Terrific stuff, really appreciate it. I knew other people would have pieces of the puzzle I was missing. You rock. I’ll check out the posts.

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Tata for now everyone, this response was more than I hoped for. Thanks so much for everyone’s comments, I am totally stoked.



I must return to real life... I’ll try to get that part 2 up shortly, and link to it here.



Please carry on.


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I am in fact imagining a smaller moon, and I think the text is implying that many times, and I do think it was farther away.

cool

I also think the two moons were in a double eclipse alignment (I think I can prove that), with the soon-to-be-exploded elf moon being closest to the sun.

On an astronomic scale, no matter how 'closer' you want them to be, it would be pretty negligible difference.

As I mentioned, for the moon to be known to the human beings, we must constrain it to be clearly visible with naked eye and that basically means that the further away we put our object,

the more massive we must require it to be. But we must also take into account Planetos size and its gravitational force, that also limits the size [both its min/max stats]

of the moon and - more importantly - the largest distance it can have wrt. Planetos.

I know that the 'double eclipse' seems like a suggestive explanation, but it is somewhat weak.

Again, it requires highly coincidental [with very little odds] preconditions [all objects being at the right position in space and time].

The coincidence would help maybe the first year, but all the subsequent years the Planetos would just happen around the same orbit zone, it can not.

Where are the meteor showers it should experience with a yearly frequency?

The existing moon would have taken some of the impact. Whatever debris arrived on planets would take two forms: smaller fragments, which would in fact burn up in the atmosphere, as most meteoroids do, and it is likely a few pieces would be large enough to make it through the atmosphere and cause impact.

ok

Theres all range of sizes possible, and each size of meteor would do a different amount of damage.

I am hypothesizing something smaller than the Dinosaurs impact, but big enough to darken the skies for a few years.

That is poossible, but not if you imagine any planet/moon to explode.

Earth is usually hit by 'lonely' meteors, there are many small lonely meteors out there who are not going to cause major damage to life.

What you propose is IMHO impossible. The meteor that caused the extinction of dinosaurs was sized nearly 10km wide.

That event caused an Ice Age of hundred thousands years, enough to kill off the majority of living creatures.

In planetos, the long night lasted a couple of generations at most.

Our moon is large 3.476 km in diameter, how many of those '10km' meteorites do you think it would produce, if it explodes?

Even if you choose a smaller moon, if you want it to be round-shaped, you have the minimum requirement for it to be at least 400km in diameter.

Even if only 10% of such mass would hit Planetos, that would cause major extinction. Even if in form of dust, that would cause a million year Ice Age.

And to that mass, you should add the equally-sized mass of the meteorite hitting the moon and causing its explosion. And that means you should double the number of fragments around.

That’s absolutely possible, as far as I know, and has happened before many times i various degrees.

I think the LN was an evolutionary bottleneck, when many of the ancient species were decimated or wiped out entirely. The human survivors eventually came to dominate the post-LN planet.

I disagree

As for the meter showers, they may have had them for a long time after the LN, it was 10,000 years ago and they didn’t have writing.

Common meteor showers wouldn’t have been that noteworthy after a giant explosion and semi-nuclear winter.

My argument is that you would still have meteor showers today. 1000 years are nothing on an astronomic scale, to clear out the giant mass of a moon that has exploded

it would take millions of years.

The exploded moon I am imagining is much smaller than a planet, so nowhere near the debris that we have in the asteroid belt.

BUT, since you mention it, there actually is evidence of just such a debris field....

Of course. The evil is in the details here, we should really put up some serious math calculations.

I appreciate your very reasoned and civil disagreement, as well as your constructive criticism. Thanks for the comments.

I might have to stop commenting here so I can just finish part 2, since so many people have a good idea about where this is going.

I appreciated your idea as well. Maybe GRRM simply inserted 'astronomical' elements without thinking much whether or not they were realistic at all. :-)

IMHO, I would simply remove the 'there was a moon that exploded' part from your theory. With that adjustment, we can still have a meteor shower of 'any size/dimension' hitting Planetos

(coming from any direction for any reason), and have no issue at all with it being realistic.

If the ancient men interpreted meteors as dragons, and they knew dragons come from an egg, it is not necessary that they witnessed a moon to explode to formulate the tale so that

'dragons came from a cracked egg'. They might simply have made that part up on their own.

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I appreciated your idea as well. Maybe GRRM simply inserted 'astronomical' elements without thinking much whether or not they were realistic at all. :-)

IMHO, I would simply remove the 'there was a moon that exploded' part from your theory. With that adjustment, we can still have a meteor shower of 'any size/dimension' hitting Planetos (coming from any direction for any reason), and have no issue at all with it being realistic.

If the ancient men interpreted meteors as dragons, and they knew dragons come from an egg, it is not necessary that they witnessed a moon to explode to formulate the tale so that 'dragons came from a cracked egg'. They might simply have made that part up on their own.

I do thin kwe have to remember that it’s fantasy - I think he’s using scientific concepts to design a magic that makes some sort of sense, instead of being some insubstantial reservoir that wizards just draw from. I’m not exactly sure how far he went with the technicalities of the mechanics, and throughout the process I am always considering possibilities both more and less technical.

I’m pretty sold on the moon destruction, it’s just corroborated symbolically in the text way too many times, more than I have listed in the OP even. My idea about the specific composition of the moon helps to explain why it exploded and how, perhaps it will make more sense to you then.. we’ll see. As of the comet, it does seem to be abnormally large, from the descriptions of the characters, so that fits. It was a big mofo.

I’m just sort of going where the research leads me, but I realize with something so multifaceted, involving so many parts, that people are bound to agree with certain bits but perhaps draw different conclusions.. and of course that’s fine and dandy. I’m going with the two moons thing for now, but this whole thing is theoretical, so feel free to pick and choose what makes sense to you and construct a different conclusion. I am hoping that if we all do this, we can perhaps ’solve the puzzle.'

Ok now I really gotta go to sleep. I wanted to respond to your comments though, because you took the time to go item by item and I appreciate that.

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Though what I said about proto Others is off. Wrong timeline the wall already existed.

Proto-Others? I'm all ears! I've been toting the idea of Ancient Others around the interwebs for some time. I'm curious about your take, and what made you feel it had been disproven... The Wall was built as a response to the Others, without a doubt, so there must've been an ancient Other invasion to warrant it, one way or another....

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It’s almost like you’ve read part 2 already. ;)

As you probably gathered, it's a theory I've been thinking over myself for quite a while. Really stoked to see someone doing the research I've never got around to doing, and running with it. Great thread, looking forwards to part 2.

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This is a very enjoyable read and it became one of my favorite theories. Comet (a head with a tail) >>> Moon (a larger sphere, likened to eggs in the series) is also a metaphor for Sperm (a head with a tail) >>> Egg (a larger sphere).



Here are some quotes from The Poison King: The Life and Legend of Mithradates, Rome’s Deadliest Enemy by Adrienne Mayor. I am sure that everybody will find these both familiar and intriguing.



The star appeared in the East, so brilliant that it seemed to rival the sun and set the night sky aflame. The luminous tail curved across a quarter of the heavens, as long as the Milky Way. The year was 135 BC.



Across Anatolia, from Caucasus to Persia, the comet was greeted with rejoicing. According to well-known prophecies, a bright new light in the sky would announce the coming of a savior-king, a messiah or a great leader who would triumph over enemies. … The comet of 135 BC coincided with the birth of Mithradates VI Eupator Dionysus, in Sinope, capital of Pontus in the Black Sea.



The infant’s family name, Mithradates (Old Persian Mithradatha, “sent by Mithra”), commemorated the ancient Iranian (Persian) god of Sun, Light and Truth. In ancient Persian traditions, a great fire or light from the heavens had accompanied Mithra’s birth.





The Han records [from China] reported that two extremely rare “war banner”-type stars appeared for about two months in the late summer and fall of 135 BC and again in 119 BC. Trailing fiery tails like battle pennants, the pair of comets caused great excitement in China. According to the Han soothsayers, “war banner” comets predicted massacres, terrible wars, and the rise of a great conqueror. … Extraordinarily brilliant, with very long, curving dust tails filling much of the sky, each comet took four hours to rise and set, and was visible for seventy days.





Mithradates’ comets of 135 and 119 BC appeared in the constellation Pegasus. This position of the sky helps explain why he chose the winged horse as his personal emblem. Pegasus was a symbol that bridged East and West, like Mithradates himself. In Greek myth, Pegasus carried the god Zeus’ lightning, but the immortal flying horse originated in Mesopotamian mythology. Moreover, a comet in the horse constellation would have carried even deeper meaning for Mithradates and his Persian-influenced followers. The Sun god Mithra always recognized a new king by sending an omen by his sacred animal, the horse.



The curved shape of the twin comets’ tails geld special significance too. In Anatolia, the new stars’ crescent tails might have called to mind the crescent and star symbol of Pontus. But even more awe-inspiring was the resemblance to a distinctive weapon. In Mithradates’ world, comets were associated with war because they looked like great swords suspended in the sky. The rare comets of 135 and 119 had curved tails, reminding the Chinese of war banners. In the Near East, however, the crescent shape called to mind a particular kind of sword, the sickle-shaped harpe, the Persian scimitar, the signature weapon of Mithra himself.


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Great, great, work here. The sort of theory I'd never come up with myself, but that makes so much sense when reading, that I have to wonder how no-one saw it before! this is really great, thanks for sharing Lucifer means Lightbringer.



I think Lightbringer the comet, has to have an orbit of hundreds of years...in that sense, I don't think it is the same as the one Rhaegar spotted when Aegon was conceived. On planetos, as in our world, there's bound to be lots of comets, hundreds of them.



Or we are not talking of a single comet, but a cluster of comets like these:




The Kreutz Sungrazers 11px-Speakerlink-new.svg.pngi/ˈkrɔɪts/ (pronounced kroits) are a family of sungrazing comets, characterized by orbits taking them extremely close to the Sun at perihelion. They are believed to be fragments of one large comet that broke up several centuries ago and are named for German astronomer Heinrich Kreutz, who first demonstrated that they were related.A Kreutz Sungrazers's aphelion is about 160 AU from the Sun; these sungrazers make their way from the distant outer Solar System from a patch in the sky in Canis Major, to the inner Solar System, to their perihelion point near the Sun, and then leave the inner Solar System in their return trip to their aphelion.


Several members of the Kreutz family have become Great Comets, occasionally visible near the Sun in the daytime sky. The most recent of these was Comet Ikeya-Seki in 1965, which may have been one of the brightest comets in the last millennium. It has been suggested that another cluster of bright Kreutz system comets may begin to arrive in the inner Solar System in the next few years to decades.




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kreutz_Sungrazers


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I've been mulling very much the same notion for a while now. Great write-up, but I'd differ a little on this one, I don't think your water and lion forgings fit.

1. I don't think water as the origin of the comet makes a lot of sense for myth, people aren't going to know what comets are composed of.

2. I don't think the lion as the sun makes much sense either, as the sun already has a role in the astronomical myth: Azor Ahai. Azor Ahai is the husband of Nissa Nissa and wielder of lightbringer, while sun/moon as husband/wife is a common mythic motif, and a comet could be seen as swinging around the sun in the way a warrior swings a sword.

My guess is that the three forgings represent three passes of the comet, and the description of the three forgings matches the disappearance of the comet.

First pass, going out of sight into the Milky Way equivalent*, a good parallel for plunging into water.

Arianne's description is clearly a galactic band like our Milky Way, and we see that Dorne identify it as a fleet of ships, a suitably nautical symbol. Very likely other cultures would see it as a sea or river stars, as the ancient Egyptians saw if as a reflection of the Nile.

Second pass, going out of sight into an equivalent* of the constellation Leo. We know in the North they name one constellation the Shadowcat, and I'd propose it's named after native big cats in different regions, for which "lion" is just a generic translation.

Third pass, moon & boom.

I had made this suggestion when Lucifer was working on this. My problem was that I was looking for an Aquarius equivalent to match water and didn't see it, so it remains speculative. The Milky Way hadn't occurred to me and for tidiness, I would prefer a water constellation, but if the Milky Way turns up in the text eventually, I guess I don't get to be choosy. The Maya see the Milky Way as the corn god and as a canoe depending on its position, so I am not sure it is a given that the cultures of Planetos see it as water, but it remains possible.

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What an interesting theory. I really enjoyed it.

Did you consider the possibility that the lion in the AA story was a constelation instead of the sun? Because I do remember both Jaime and Cersei being compared to the sun at different points (Bran's coma dream and Kevan's chapter) but never Tywin being compared to it.

How do the Others fit in? Are they just opportunists who take advantage of the long winters to conquer and expand ther domains?

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.

In Closing

To sum up the hypothesis so far: the legend of the forging of Lightbringer originated with a celestial event of great magnitude which occurred in ancient times, the destruction of a second moon by a comet. Lightbringer is, among other things, a metaphor for the comet. It was forged in water and ice as it entered the inner solar system, it was forged by the lion when it was split in half as it rounded the sun, and it was forged in the heart of Nissa Nissa when it struck the elf moon and exploded in a truly gigantic fireball. The debris from the destruction of the second moon and it's impacts on Planetos triggered the Long Night, and is responsible for the irregular seasons. The remaining half of the comet is the red comet which we see in the current story, and it may be coming back to strike the remaining moon.

I also believe that there is an 'on-the-ground' counterpoint to this celestial drama. I do not think the myth of Lightbringer is ONLY referring to the celestial events, but rather that the celestial events created a pattern which in turn played out in a multitude of ways on the surface of Planetos. We will examine some of these in parts 2 and 3 and however many more it takes.

I will point out that only one half of the planet would have witnessed this celestial explosion event- the side facing the moon. Given that all the various "flaming sword guy" myths are in the east, it's a safe bet that that was the side of Planetos facing the explosion. The Azor Ahai myth is a likely description that an ancient human would invent to describe what they saw in the sky that day. But I think it goes further, as I said in my hypothesis: as above, so below. Whatever happens in the heavens manifests below.

.

THINGS IN THE BACK POCKET:

  • Nissa Nissa connected to CotF?
  • Two Lightbringer swords
  • Dawn comes from first comet forging
  • Dawn used to slay dragons?
  • Significance of 12+1
  • Serwyn of the Mirror Shield / Eclipse formation
  • Hammer of the Waters
  • Grey King / Sea Dragon

Well done, well done, well done!

That was a great read and I thank you for giving the forum something interesting to read and discuss. I really like the ideas you've presented and the notion that there were once two moons in the sky and one went BOOM is quite in line with my thinking post-World Book but you've added the idea of a comet causing that destruction that I think makes a lot of sense. That more or less made me go, "aaahhhhhhhh. yeah that'll work." I think the next stage of this is how it affected Plantoes--and not just in a mythological sense but in a very real tangible one: i.e, super messed up seasons as you point out, but also I'm curious as to your take on the Darkness in Asshai and beyond in the Shadow. How did the people in those two locations react or how were they impacted (not literally, lol!) by the destruction of the second moon. Did the darkness or shift in the planet allow them access to magic more easily? Did it cause them to seek out magical powers in order to answer the question of "what the hell just happened??"

I wish I had more to contribute other than just a few passing thoughts and some compliments, but that's what I got right now :)

As to the things in your back pocket:

1) yes, Dawn then likely came from either the comet or the moon itself. So we have a sword that came from the heavens (sort of) and then Valyrian steel swords which seem to require blood magic. Interesting dichotomy.

2) I don't think the shattering of the moon is directly responsible for the Hammer on the Waters, but I wonder if the shattering somehow opened up abilities for the COTF to use magic more readily because of the shift in Plantoes (like it would have happened in Asshai as well)

Really nice work here. Look forward to your next parts!

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Sure. Not sure if you've squeezed him in there but Symeon Star Eyes is another likely bridge between Men, Stars, and Others. If BtB=LH and LH=NK, I can't help but wonder if SSE is BtB as he gives his soul to the pale woman. Just posted my Others hierarchy in general a few minutes ago, link in sig. Lot of detail there you might find useful.

There is definitely something going on there, with the eyes + stars + sapphires. Not the least of which is that Symeon's eyes were supposedly replaced with star sapphires, which are actually different from regular sapphires. - images. But the most important point of that description, imo, is to connect sapphires with stars, as in the Ice Dragon.

Of course all of this sapphire stuff makes Brienne an interesting character to look into, being from the Sapphire Isle. That sigil is pretty neat, since we're on the subject. ;)

The repetition of blue and stars in association with the others and the north is near constant through out the text. The eyes of the Others are described as blue and as stars. The eyes of one of the wights, before it is brought through the wall and reanimates are described as being blue sapphires. The star in the eye of the rider in the Ice Dragon constellation is described as a blue star, and it is the only blue star in the books. In Ned's fever dream he describes the pedals of of the blue rose to be blue like the eyes of death. (I have all this annotated, but it is 6:00 am, so I am not going to reference it all.) Blue is constantly used as a description of steel and ice, associating it with death. Then we have the blue lipped warlocks, with their anit-Weirdwood trees, with blue leaves and black bark, which they make the blue Shade of the Evening from. All this leading to Daenerys meeting the Undying who are like blue shadows and have a hovering corrupted blue heart pulsing with indigo light. Suffice it to say, I trust the story of Symeon Star Eyes about as far as could throw Wun Wun. There is something wrong with that guy.

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