Walking Dead Season 5 (No Comic Spoilers) Part 4

[MisterOJ]

It's honestly ridiculous that in every tv show with an ensemble cast people get in an uproar if there's not at least 4 Caucasians, 4 African Americans, 4 Hispanics, 4 Asians, 4 Mixed raced people, 4 people with a disability, 7 straight, 7 bi, 7 homosexual, 8 pensioners, 8 teenagers, 8 middle-aged, 10 men, 10 women, 10 transgender and so on and so on.

Are people looking at Empire and saying there's not enough White people? No because the cast fits the story.

Are people looking at Ru Paul's Drag Race and complaining there isn't enough straight people? No because I'm sure statistically it's probably right on.

Is Breaking Bad terrible for portraying Hispanics not in a positive light? No because I'm sure they did their research on the New Mexico drug scene.

Bottom line the cast fits the purpose of the show, just a radom group of people strung together trying to survive. DBHunting showed they actually have the average cultural background of America almost dead on in The Walking Dead. But if people want to look at the characters as which colors are slightly worse off instead of a group of people as a whole, then that's a shame, very cynical.

The problem I've had with the show is that it takes place (before this season) in and around Atlanta. Which is not a typical American city. It is pretty much the only major American city where African-Americans make up the majority of the population. About 54 percent of the total population of Atlanta is black, so really, the show should have had more of an African-American presence.

That said, I don't think the writers should feel like they have to not kill off a character because of his or her race or gender. Also, if I'm not mistaken, at least one of the black men who were "killed off by the writers" was because the actor (Chad Coleman) was leaving to take a part on another show.

[Free Northman Reborn]

Does it strike anyone as odd how soft a normal human being's flesh suddenly appears to become the moment the Walkers start to devour you?

I mean, Walkers are not stated to be any stronger than normal humans. In fact, they generally appear to have significant muscle deterioration and are therefore slower, weaker and have worse fine motor skills.

Similarly, their teeth are not sharper than that of normal humans, nor are their jaw muscles stronger.

And yet, as was rather gruesomely detailed in Noah and Aiden's deaths, the flesh of a living victim literally appears to melt and tear away like wet paper the moment a Walker digs his hands into you. And their teeth appear to rip a person to shreds faster than that of a lion or bear would.

Seems rather unlikely, I would think. I doubt that strong, healthy living humans could shred a person with their bare hands and teeth as fast as these half decomposed Zombies can.

[Fiddler]

Even though I think the theory of Jesse being the abuser and not the abusee is interesting, I don't think it is likely.

First, we are introduced to him as Porchdick, in which he really came across as an ass. Next we see him at a party in which he offers his wife a drink, which she declines, to which he replies "You'll drink when I tell you to drink" (or something to that effect). Lastly we have the awkward, drunken way he approached Rick.

All of which leads me to believe that if he isn't abusive, he is just a jerk to those around him. Neither of which is worth killing him over, like Carol said.

Granted, I think it will devolve to a fist fight between Rick and Dr. Drunk, in which Rick will pull his hold out pistol in front of everyone and cause Leader lady to start really thinking about what Judas Priest told her.

[TrackerNeil]

It's sad that society has over-corrected itself and we are now constantly looking to try to point out cases of racism, homophobia, sexism, etc when there clearly are none. I actually feel it's a form of discrimination in itself when people try and point out the differences an allotment of people should have.

Yes, how dare typically marginalized people ask uncomfortable questions about if and how they are represented in media! They're all bigots of diversity, I tell you!

[Cyvasse Khal]

The problem I've had with the show is that it takes place (before this season) in and around Atlanta. Which is not a typical American city. It is pretty much the only major American city where African-Americans make up the majority of the population. About 54 percent of the total population of Atlanta is black, so really, the show should have had more of an African-American presence.

That said, I don't think the writers should feel like they have to not kill off a character because of his or her race or gender. Also, if I'm not mistaken, at least one of the black men who were "killed off by the writers" was because the actor (Chad Coleman) was leaving to take a part on another show.

Is this a comic/graphic novel problem or a show problem though? I have no idea about anything in the comics, only that some characters and storylines are different. If Robert Kirkman in his comics had 54% of his Atlanta characters as Black, but producers, the network, casting, etc encouraged the show to change that, then I could certainly see a problem with that. But if the show generally follows the same as what characters are in the comics, then everyone's gripes about cultural and racial unfairness are basically directed at just one guy.

[Free Northman Reborn]

I just think there is a lot more gain for the Show in Rick showing the insight to side with Doctor guy when the truth is revealed, against some other abuser, rather than just giving Rick the opportunity to align his sexual desires with the convenient situation that Pete is an abuser.

That is just too easy a way out to justify the adultery mess that he is playing around with.

[sologdin]

there clearly are none

come now. irrespective of the actual facts, this kinda dogmatic rhetoric isn't going to persuade anyone. (the actual facts, as it happens, won't be persuaded either.)

[Cyvasse Khal]

Yes, how dare typically marginalized people ask uncomfortable questions about if and how they are represented in media! They're all bigots of diversity, I tell you!

I'm not saying diversity is bad or people shouldn't want there to be diversity on their tv screens. My point is people use diversity in a situation like this to start pointing out everyone's differences, they're looking at these characters on a very superficial level if all they care about is the percentage of black deaths is higher than white deaths. There's enough discrimination in the world as it is without trying to look for it on a show about a zombie apocalypse.

[Cyvasse Khal]

there clearly are none

come now. irrespective of the actual facts, this kinda dogmatic rhetoric isn't going to persuade anyone. (the actual facts, as it happens, won't be persuaded either.)

Fair enough. I think the argument was doomed to be rhetorical from the start mind you. Happy to get back to discussing the show now though.

[Lord Syv Aldlark]

As for human flesh vs zombies.. I think their strength comes from the fact they have no inhibitions. They are biting with full strength and probably breaking teeth in the process. Same with arm strength fatigue isn't an issue so they can grab and pull with full power and maybe even more so.

[Ser Cold Fingers]

Are we going to learn what W is next episode? or not until the Season Finale?

TWD-5.15 Try Synopsis (not really a spoiler but better safe than sorry)

Spoiler

The group realizes that sheltered life might not be possible as life within the walls starts to mimic life outside. Will these setbacks break Rick?

Based on the promos and the synopsis...does someone inside die & turn? Sasha turn Charles Whitman in the tower (doubtful but...)?

At this point...does everyone in this apocolyptic world understand that once you're dead, you can reanimate...regardless of method of death? or do the Alexandrians not understand this?

[Ser Cold Fingers]

OH...and back to 5.14 for a moment...when Abraham saves the day at the construction site, then takes over ordering people where to go, what to do...I had a flashback of Michael Cudlitz as 'Bull' on Band of Brothers.

It was also the first time since Eugene's reveal that I think Abraham was comfortable.

[TrackerNeil]

I'm not saying diversity is bad or people shouldn't want there to be diversity on their tv screens. My point is people use diversity in a situation like this to start pointing out everyone's differences, they're looking at these characters on a very superficial level if all they care about is the percentage of black deaths is higher than white deaths. There's enough discrimination in the world as it is without trying to look for it on a show about a zombie apocalypse.

I don't think that noticing how the black characters are regularly biting it on TWD is "pointing out everyone's differences." Instead, I think it's pointing out what is there to be seen, even if some people don't notice it. Indeed, the very fact that many don't notice this trend is evidence in itself that there is a problem. So I don't think one has to "look for" this strange mortality of black characters; you just have to be willing to see it.

Privilege is like oxygen; it's all around us yet completely unseen, and we never even notice it until it is scarce, at which point it consumes our attention.

[Lord Syv Aldlark]

The only thing that bothers me about bites is how flimsy clothing seems to be.

A lot of stronger materials would probably be very hard to bite through. Jeans are pretty resistant. Even with bite force I imagine it'd be hard to get through without focusing it. I.e. stab move vs bite move

[MisterOJ]

I don't think that noticing how the black characters are regularly biting it on TWD is "pointing out everyone's differences." Instead, I think it's pointing out what is there to be seen, even if some people don't notice it. Indeed, the very fact that many don't notice this trend is evidence in itself that there is a problem. So I don't think one has to "look for" this strange mortality of black characters; you just have to be willing to see it.

Privilege is like oxygen; it's all around us yet completely unseen, and we never even notice it until it is scarce, at which point it consumes our attention.

Wait... isn't the point of getting past racism not thinking about someone in terms of his or her race anymore? It seems like not really noticing "4 black characters and and 6 white characters have died" and instead making a mental note that just "10 people have died" would be a good thing.

[Ken Stone]

Yes, how dare typically marginalized people ask uncomfortable questions about if and how they are represented in media! They're all bigots of diversity, I tell you!

I just looked over the deaths. The vast majority of the people killed in the show are white.

[Lord Syv Aldlark]

Shows so raciest that a strong black woman and strong Asian man are arguably the two strongest/sympathetic characters

/end thread

[Ser Cold Fingers]

So...basically what we can interpret from the W carved in the dead, stands for White. So is the next group Rick & Co going to encounter a racist group? KKK Survivalists?

Sarcasm aside...I just want to know the purpose of carving the W in the foreheads...Based on the decay of the body, It appears the W was carved into the already deceased walker.

[Ken Stone]

I don't think that noticing how the black characters are regularly biting it on TWD is "pointing out everyone's differences." Instead, I think it's pointing out what is there to be seen, even if some people don't notice it. Indeed, the very fact that many don't notice this trend is evidence in itself that there is a problem. So I don't think one has to "look for" this strange mortality of black characters; you just have to be willing to see it.

Privilege is like oxygen; it's all around us yet completely unseen, and we never even notice it until it is scarce, at which point it consumes our attention.

A quick look at the stats shows of the 17 "Main Character" deaths 4 of them were African-Americans. Around 20%. If we count non-main characters it drops pretty dramatically to around 5%. I think this is more a case of 2 African American characters dying back to back, more than any trend of privilege in the show itself.

[TrackerNeil]

Wait... isn't the point of getting past racism not thinking about someone in terms of his or her race anymore? It seems like not really noticing "4 black characters and and 6 white characters have died" and instead making a mental note that just "10 people have died" would be a good thing.

Not in my book, no. That, to me, smacks of "I don't see race", which of course we all do because, well, race is there, and it matters.

Look, I'm not going to contribute any further to thread drift, and this topic seems more appropriate for the general section of the board. However, I suggest that when you're marshaling data to show that black people on a show are not being perhaps mis-portrayed, there's a problem of portrayal.

And with that, I'll stop the thread drift.