Walking Dead Season 5 (No Comic Spoilers) Part 4

[dbunting]

Good episode start to finish.

I assumed drunk daddy broke the owl, but didn't put two and two together on why the kid actually tried to hang with Carol until he mentioned getting a gun himself. It clicked then that once he is drunk he gets abusive.

Nice to see another midevil tool used when Abraham used the makeshift mace on the walkers until he got motherdicked.

Rick can't just kill the doctor anyway. He needs to go to Deeana with it and find a solution.

Judas priest is right. Seems he has short term memory loss and forgot about locking his flock out of the curch and them getting eaten while screaming for him.

Setting up for a good end to the season. Tensions will be high when Deeana's son odesn't come back and you know weasel boy will lie and say it was Glenn and mullet man.

[BaseBornBastard]

So who are the 4 graves for? Unless they are symbolic there wouldn't be graves for Aiden or Noah.

Assuming they're not symbolic, I'm guessing one for Tara, and three for some Alexandrians that are, as of now, not yet dead.

I'd bet it's the four people that Aiden lost from his Alexandria crew before Rick and co. came. IIRC Aiden claimed they were scared, panicked and died. I think maybe Deanna finds out that her son panicked and left them to die, she's probably distraught. Nick and Aiden talked about it in front of Glen before Aiden died.

Aiden - "Don't leave me"

Nick - "Yoouu left them. We both did. That's who we are."

Nick leaves

Aiden - "Okay, it was... it was us. The others before. They didn't panic. We did. It was us"

I doubt that Aidan and Nicholas managed to bring back the bodies of the four Alexandrians they left for dead though. Unless the graves are, in fact, symbolic.

[Dr. Pepper]

Whoever the graves belong to, I'd assume the majority of them would be symbolic. They've always done symbolic graves and the Alexandrians are likely even more inclined to do the symbolic grave thing since they haven't moved much passed the old norm.

[dbunting]

I'd say symbolic but not those four, new four...Noah, Aiden, head trauma girl(horrible w names) and a new one next episode????

As quickly as this group leaves their members behind I don't see why they would have symbolic graves anyway. I would think a monument type of thing would make more sense.

Also, Sasha in the clock tower still screams bad idea to me.

[Dr. Pepper]

I'd say symbolic but not those four, new four...Noah, Aiden, head trauma girl(horrible w names) and a new one next episode????

As quickly as this group leaves their members behind I don't see why they would have symbolic graves anyway. I would think a monument type of thing would make more sense.

Also, Sasha in the clock tower still screams bad idea to me.

Noah and Aiden would also have symbolic graves because their bodies are unrecoverable.

[Free Northman Reborn]

OK, a few observations from this intriguing episode:

Let's start with the priest. I am amazed that so many people try and figure out what he is talking about. To me, it is quite obvious. His entire little speech was one big example of projection. Everything he accused Rick's group of having done was an exact description of what he is so tormented about having done to his congregation himself. He talked about them turning on you when you most need them, about them putting their own lives ahead of that of everyone else. How they have done unspeakably evil stuff. Well, that is precisely what he did when he locked his flock out of his church and left them to die outside. "You will burn for this". Remember that? He is tormented by his own actions, and has finally cracked. And now he is projecting his own evils onto Rick's group. In fact, he might even subconsciously be trying to villify them before they can spill the beans on his own betrayal of his church.

So it is a simple case of projecting your own flaws onto someone else, and we need read no more into it than that, as far as Gabriel's motivations are concerned.

However, his little speech was deeply ironic for another reason, which is that while it essentially boiled down to him accusing Rick's group of putting their own safety ahead of that of everyone else in Alexandria, this episode was filled to the brim with examples of Rick's group doing exactly the opposite: Abraham saved the construction lady by putting his own life in danger. And Noah, Glen and even cowardly Eugene did the same for Aidan and his pal. To the point where they actually sacrificed Noah's life to do so. So Gabriel's accusations are clearly refuted in this very episode. For the viewer at least, if not to Deanna's knowledge as yet. So any attempts by some of you to give some legitimacy to Gabriel's comments are misguided, as the Show clearly went out of its way in this very episode to prove the fallacy of his claims.

The third and last aspect of his speech that is important, is the symbolic language he used. I think it is indeed a prophecy. He says that the devil is disguised as the Angel of Light in Alexandria. This ties in with Norman Reedus's comments that someone in Alexandria is very different from how they seem. This will probably be the big revelation we are waiting for. Here's what I think the big secret is:

I think that the drunk doctor is a Red Herring. I think he is an alcoholic, sure. But if you look at his actions, nothing he has done has actually been aggressive or threatening. I think he is indeed trying to hold his family together. And I also think Sam is being abused, as Carol suspects. But here's the kicker. I think Jessie is the abuser.

Think about it. She wears sleeveless tops all the time, and yet we have not seen one bruise on her. This does not tie in with her rather large drunken husband physically abusing her. I think she is psychotic or an alcoholic as well, or something worse. And she is the one abusing her family. And Sam wanted the gun for his weakling dad, to protect the family against this devil disguised as an angel of light.

That's also why he never gets cookies, and why he bonded so easily with a replacement maternal figure. Because his mother does not fill that role at home.

I must say, I am pumped for the remaining 2 episodes. And I'm very pleased that Rick remembered his wedding ring again. Rick is back. And he will not fall for the temptation from the false angel of light.

Bring on next week.

[Dr. Pepper]

I think that the drunk doctor is a Red Herring. I think he is an alcoholic, sure. But if you look at his actions, nothing he has done has actually been aggressive or threatening. I think he is indeed trying to hold his family together. And I also think Sam is being abused, as Carol suspects. But here's the kicker. I think Jessie is the abuser.

Think about it. She wears sleeveless tops all the time, and yet we have not seen one bruise on her. This does not tie in with her rather large drunken husband physically abusing her. I think she is psychotic or an alcoholic as well, or something worse. And she is the one abusing her family. And Sam wanted the gun for his weakling dad, to protect the family against this devil disguised as an angel of light.

That's also why he never gets cookies, and why he bonded so easily with a replacement maternal figure. Because his mother does not fill that role at home.

Have to admit, I've thought this, too. Though, obviously, without the ridiculous 1950's sexist language. Was planning to rewatch because something wasn't adding up.

[Free Northman Reborn]

Have to admit, I've thought this, too. Though, obviously, without the ridiculous 1950's sexist language. Was planning to rewatch because something wasn't adding up.

It wold also explain why Sam destroyed his mother's owl thingy.

[cdawnb]

I was surprised by Gaberial's actions. First off what was he even talking about? Was he referring to the way Rick and co killed the people THAT WERE TRYING TO EAT THEM? As far as I'm concerned, if you are trying to eat people you are a walker. Was it they way they dealt with the hospital group? I just don't remember them being that bad.

Maybe what Gabriel wants is for Deanna to put them out before Rick's group has a chance to let everyone there know his own sins.

[The Anti-Targ]

Well I guess no one else is going to die for the rest of the season as there are no more African American men, who the audience likes, left to kill off. Though if we want to make it a full set psycho priest will have to be put down.

A spot has suddenly opened up on the team for Morgan Jones to fill the role of next person to die.

Nice call on the abusive parent twist. Personally I hope Rick and Carol get it horribly wrong and they summarily kill Doctor red herring with the result that they all leave with Devil Jessie in tow. They leave of course because all Deanna sees is a selfish move by Rick to lay claim to Jessie, thus confirming Gabriel's version of the group in her mind.

Then they have to spend the next season of TWD figuring out that Jessie is destroying the group from within, while Rick spends the whole time being mesmerised by her vagina and alienating himself, again, from the entire group until he, again, comes to his senses once the group has been denuded, again, of all male African American presence. The group really needs a better leader, and one wonders if the people who were on team Shane were actually right. Or if ultimately both of them lack the EQ to be a real leader and the group is stupid for not having made Glenn and Maggie the co-leaders 2 seasons ago.

[TrackerNeil]

not that it bothers me one way or another, but black characters are dropping like flies

are the writers are oblivious to the trend everyone has talked about, or do they just not care?

Yeah, this is getting uncomfortable. What is going on in that writing room?

As to Gabriel's little treachery, Deanna heard him out, sure, but the dude came into her house talking a bunch of crazy stuff about Satan and angels of light and I suspect she's taking that into account. However, should Deanna learn that Rick and Carol are caching weapons, Gabriel's rant will sound a lot less crazy, won't it? (Well, he'll still seem crazy but his accusations will carry at least some weight.)

[dbunting]

It would be a twist if the doctor was the one being abused. I will also say if that is the case then it's also sloppy writing in my opinion. Why would the kid gravitate toward a woman who seems evil to him? He would be scared of her like he would be of his mom and he would never have gone around Carol again.

[dbunting]

As to the race thing, I also felt a cringe. However consider the groups make up

Rick, Maggie, Carol, Carl, Eugene, Darryl White 50%

Sasha, Michonne, Gabriel Black 25%

Tara, Rosita Hispanic 17%

Glenn Asian 8%

When I googled census data this is what I got for U.S citizens who claimed one race alone.

White 72%

Hispanic 16.4%

Black 12.6%

Asian 4.8%

So, if you looked at raw data the cast is actually pretty close to population overall.

[The Mother of The Others]

well, if the mom is nuts, then it was the mom who busted up the owl thingy. the kid would be covering for her having one of her episodes. Seems.... unlikely. She nice as all hell. Could be dad's into someting more specific than random body shots. Hee did want everyone's chillun' to come in for a visit....

[Dr. Pepper]

As to the race thing, I also felt a cringe. However consider the groups make up

Rick, Maggie, Carol, Carl, Eugene, Darryl White 50%

Sasha, Michonne, Gabriel Black 25%

Tara, Rosita Hispanic 17%

Glenn Asian 8%

When I googled census data this is what I got for U.S citizens who claimed one race alone.

White 72%

Hispanic 16.4%

Black 12.6%

Asian 4.8%

So, if you looked at raw data the cast is actually pretty close to population overall.

It's not the demographic make-up of the group that is being remarked upon, but the problem with black males on this show.

[Lord Syv Aldlark]

There's been just as many if not more white deaths. Though if you really want to think about it....

The south has higher percentage of blacks than most other places yet nearly all zombies are white?

[Lord Syv Aldlark]

32% black, 65% white and the rest fill out the last 2%

[BaseBornBastard]

As to the race thing, I also felt a cringe. However consider the groups make up

Rick, Maggie, Carol, Carl, Eugene, Darryl White 50%

Sasha, Michonne, Gabriel Black 25%

Tara, Rosita Hispanic 17%

Glenn Asian 8%

When I googled census data this is what I got for U.S citizens who claimed one race alone.

White 72%

Hispanic 16.4%

Black 12.6%

Asian 4.8%

So, if you looked at raw data the cast is actually pretty close to population overall.

You forgot Abraham.

[Durckad]

The Mom being an evil abuser would be the dumbest, most Shyamalan-esque twist ever, if only because there's been no lead up to it at all. I hope it's as simple as the Porch Dick being an abusive, alcoholic douchebag and that Rick and Carol's first instinct to kill him is a totally fucking bad idea. That would at least be internally consistent.

[The Mother of The Others]

So the Southerners killed all the black zombies first, and basically allowed themselves to get overrun by the white zombies the way India refuses to harm cows? Okay.