Season 5 Casting, News and Speculation V13 [show spoilers, book spoilers past OP]

[sati]

I would suggest the audience is for the most part, throughout Season 1, experiencing the story (at least in Westeros) from the Stark's perspective. Does Caitlyn, or any of the Starks, ever find out who ordered this knife attack in the books? Why is it not acceptable for us the viewers to have some level of uncertainty, when the characters themselves do not know. If viewers of the show are really dying to know, they can turn to the books and find out the answer to this question, and go "oh yeah, of course why didn't I think of that. It was obviously Joffrey"

Tyrion knows and he figures it out after Catelyn has already died (I think, not sure if his chapter about this was after/prior to RW, anyways it would be it after it in the show). And 'obviously' doesn't really fit here, since there are other possibilities. It's simply baffling to me, personally, imho, how Cersei's involvement in R's death is all cleared up now and Joffrey's crime was not in last season. Anyways I'm glad at least they are addressing Cersei/Robert thing.

[Poète Lauréat]

Poet Laureate is Enmity btw, so if you say someone else is the most negative he'll want to one-up him. ;)

The guy who posted is lost and I agree with Alas. I still think however D&D have screwed so many scenes with their wayward writing, but not to that extent. You think it's a competition for me to be the most ''aggressive poster''? Ok... It's almost like you want me to do it, which is even more strange.

The Ignore option is working like charm for me. Highly recommended. :)

Its funny how you say you ignore me, then you keep replying to me to and talking about me. It's as if you are doing to make me mad and throw it in my face. At the end of the day I'm not a troll, and you just ignored me because you got butthurt about my opinion. An intelligent person should always respond to critics. If someone ignores an argument it shows they don't have a substantial one in the first place.

[Farwynds Oceanseer]

fuck yeah, Ser Rolly!

Game of Thrones is licen$ed adaptation.

Fan fiction is unlicensed adaptation.

Of course it's not the same :dunno:

On the outside chance that Rolly (and thus [f]Aegon) appears: maybe--just maybe--a couple episodes after Jorah kidnaps Tyrion (ep 5?), we see a quick scene of Varys meeting Illyrio in a green-screened Volantis and informing him that Tyrion will not be bringing Dany to mouth of the Rhoyne and, if their favored pretender is to court the Dragon Queen, it is time for plan B--in which the pretender goes all the way to Meereen. The Griffs are introduced with Lemore and Duck, asked to bring a sealed letter to the captain of the Golden Company, and mysteriously reminded to keep Young Griff's identity secret until they meet the Dragon Queen. In episode 6 or 7, the mysterious Griffs meet Harry Strickland, find out that it is impossible to get a ship to Meereen, and, after conferring, announce that the Company may want to head strait for Westeros once they find out who the mysterious Young Griff really is. The show cuts away before the big reveal.

In episode 9 or 10, we see one minute or less of OId and Young Griff taking Storms End from Stanis' garrison in the name of Aegon VI. In one of the final scenes of ep 10, Varys kills Kevan and gives his speech. All these scene could be done in 5 or 6 minutes. Of course, the Duckster isn't necessary for any of these scenes, so at most he would be a featured extra.

Other possiblities: NCW mixed up the words for Duck and swan. We're really getting a reference to Balon Swann, or, better still, the Swan Ships (but probably not). Or there are ducks in the Water Gardens.

Or Trystane is show-(f)Aegon and also wargs ducks. Or we find out that Trystayne's sister Arrianne didn't really die dueling with an Yronwood and in fact is on her way to Meereen to propose to Vicerys because Doran can never remember which Targaryan survived the Dothraki--but it doesn't matter because Dornish law allows same sex marriages. Heirs can still be produced with a little sun-tea and magic before sex. In order to conceive with Daenerys, Arrienne sacrifices a duck. (Oops. Better not give HBO ideas. They just might try this).

On all the hair splitting over the use of the term "fan fiction:" who cares? No one thinks the licensed adaptation is literally fan fiction. It's just metaphor for the 50% or so of D&D's inventions that are so amateurish, so cliche-ridden, so full of the racist and sexist two dimensional characterizations that Martin studiously avoids that they cause physical pain when they break up an otherwise good adaptation, much like a paragraph of slipshod fan fiction grafted into the original text (and I know not all fan fiction is slipshod). Maybe the board's metaphor police would be happier if we called it "adaptation hack-ization"?

[sati]

On all the hair splitting over the use of the term "fan fiction:" who cares? No one thinks the licensed adaptation is literally fan fiction. It's just metaphor for the 50% or so of D&D's inventions that are so amateurish, so cliche-ridden, so full of the racist and sexist two dimensional characterizations that Martin studiously avoids that they cause physical pain when they break up an otherwise good adaptation, much like a paragraph of slipshod fan fiction grafted into the original text (and I know not all fan fiction is slipshod). Maybe the board's metaphor police would be happier if we called it "adaptation hack-ization"?

!!!! :bowdown: Thank you so much for writing this.

[Konradsmith]

The reason the "hair-splitting" was brought up again was because GrrM made a clarification about the use of the term. So. Pertinent.

Y'all don't use it as a metaphor anyways; you use it as a quick buzzword to dismiss certain choices without actually discussing their merits reasonably. Hopefully GrrM's clarification here means that more people will actually explain their distastes soundly instead of reactively throwing out a word that by definition is inappropriate for this kindof discussion.

[roxWolfox]

Fanfic: story written by a fan based on a novel, movie, tv show, comic book, video game, etc.

Example: 50 Shades of Grey books are fanfic of Twilight movies/books.

Vidfic or Fanvid: video made by a fan based on a novel, movie, tv show, comic book, video game, etc.

Whether something is "fan fiction" is not nearly as interesting to as whether something is bad fiction. Some of the stuff D&D come up with are just bad, fanfiction or not.

As Mr. Martin approved of their interpretation/adaptation of his works, I suggest you take it up with him about the quality, rather than with us.

For some posters it seems to have devolved into nothing but, "hate-watching." I don't understand the phenomena myself. If a show/insert anything I do to relax makes me miserable I stop doing it. The books are the books, the show is the show.

You are a healthy person with a sound mind. It's hard for people like you to understand fanatical obsession.

I salute you.

[sati]

The reason the "hair-splitting" was brought up again was because GrrM made a clarification about the use of the term. So. Pertinent.

You brought it up before, though. And his opinion on it won't really change what others think and say especially how most of those who use the term use it as a metaphor.

I use metaphors a lot. i mean I keep saying I'll die if Stoneheart shows up but I don't really think I'll die. I may, but I'm not certain :P

[AdmiralKyrd]

Y'all don't use it as a metaphor anyways, you use it as a quick buzzword to dismiss certain choices without actually discussing their merits at length.

Well, at least no one will ever say these threads considered Sansa in Winterfell as "fanfiction."

[Konradsmith]

You brought it up before, though. And his opinion on it won't really change what others think and say especially how most of those who use the term use it as a metaphor.

I use metaphors a lot. i mean I keep saying I'll die if Stoneheart shows up but I don't really think I'll die. I may, but I'm not certain :P

Link me another Nathalie pic and I'll shut up.

[sati]

The reason the "hair-splitting" was brought up again was because GrrM made a clarification about the use of the term. So. Pertinent.

Y'all don't use it as a metaphor anyways; you use it as a quick buzzword to dismiss certain choices without actually discussing their merits reasonably. Hopefully GrrM's clarification here means that more people will actually explain their distastes soundly instead of reactively throwing out a word that by definition is inappropriate for this kindof discussion.

Excuse me, but don't include me in that group - in my 40+ paragraph episode breakdows I go to great length to precise exactly what I don't like in certain scenes :lol:

Link me another Nathalie pic and I'll shut up.

Can't at work for next 9h and tumblr is banned here :/

[Konradsmith]

Excuse me, but don't include me in that group - in my 40+ paragraph episode breakdows I go to great length to precise exactly what I don't like in certain scenes :lol:

This is true. I meant some other people that are sure to be mad at me in the next few hours.

Can't at work for next 9h and tumblr is banned here :/

:( That means that, like Craster's wives in ep. 405, I'll have to make my own way.

[The Drunkard]

With regards to Stannis/Mance (spoiler'd for being offtopic):

This isn't the right topic, but in Mel's POV when Rattleshirt comes to visit her, everything she says internally implies she freed Mance on her own accord to win favor with Jon:

------------------------------------------------------------

Was I wrong to spare this one?

Those were not words [RattleMance] would wish to hear, though, and she could not risk losing him, not now.

Mel: "We must win the lord commander's trust, and the only way to do that is to save her*."

RMance: "Me save her, you mean? The Lord' Bones?"

Mel: "He is not you... You can do what he cannot."

*her = f²Arya, Alys Karstark, but she believes her vision to be of the real Arya.

The day has come, the red priestess thought. Lord Snow will have to listen to me now.

"There he stands, Lord Snow. Arya's deliverance. A gift from the Lord of Light ... and me."

------------------------------------------------------------

The problem I see too often with ASOIAF theories is they latch on to a few small phrases and blow the thing up to more than it needs to be. You can't ignore really important evidence like Mel's own internal musings. If there is any hint of Stannis sparing Mance, you should find it in her own thoughts.

The biggest hole for me (other than a lack of evidence) is why Stannis would want it kept hidden from Jon... or any of his motivations, really.

Not only does he not ever tell Jon, Melisandre wanted to have Jon accept Rattleshirt's help without him ever knowing his true identity (only revealing it when Jon absolutely refused to accept her 'gift'). So, if Stannis and her were in this together, Stannis only wants Jon to know if absolutely essential.... why? Sparing Mance was Jon's idea. Sparing Mance just so he can run errands for Jon would be even nicer.

And, Mance is useful to Stannis for his sway over the wildlings and for his knowledge of the Others. Stannis doesn't get either of these benefits by sending Mance on a commando mission to rescue Arya, nor would Jon/Melisandre as his proxies at the Wall. So, why?

This theory relies on a few innocuous lines read in a very particular way and wants us to believe that Stannis changes his mind and agrees with Jon (without telling him), decides to leave Mance at the Wall (and keep it hidden from Jon), and use Mance for reasons that don't align with the only reasons he gave for sparing him.

[Farwynds Oceanseer]

The reason the "hair-splitting" was brought up again was because GrrM made a clarification about the use of the term. So. Pertinent.

Y'all don't use it as a metaphor anyways; you use it as a quick buzzword to dismiss certain choices without actually discussing their merits reasonably. Hopefully GrrM's clarification here means that more people will actually explain their distastes soundly instead of reactively throwing out a word that by definition is inappropriate for this kindof discussion.

I suppose you have a point: people have used "fan fiction" as a generic derogatory term so much--and it causes so much needless debate--that I might as well find a different term for the occasional original scenes that pull me out of the Westeros matrix like Morpheus injecting my carotid artery with a concentrated red pill solution made of cliches and ratings anxiety.

The first people who noticed drowned pets in the flooded streets of London probably had trouble letting go of their witticism when everyone started saying it was raining cats and dogs at the slightest excuse.

Metaphors that catch on become dead cliches. Oh, well.

ETA: I just realized it's the red pill that takes you out of the Matrix. Fixed it.

[Konradsmith]

BTW, alcasinoroyale, that interview with Kit where he talks about having a scene with JJ Murphy in ep. 503 also confirmed Peter Vaughan's return for s5 (if ep. 505 being called "Kill the Boy" hadn't done so already). So he can be added to the OP.

[ADanceWithCats]

I suppose you have a point: people have used "fan fiction" as a generic derogatory term so much--and it causes so much needless debate--that I might as well find a different term for the occasional original scenes that pull me out of the Westeros matrix like Morpheus injecting my carotid artery with a concentrated red pill solution made of cliches and ratings anxiety.

If you wish. Myself, I'm really looking forward to when people like you will start complaining about a scene in one of the future seasons that will turn out to be 100% pure book stuff. Because, with radicals, you just know that stuff like this will happen. :D

[sati]

If you wish. Myself, I'm really looking forward to when people like you will start complaining about a scene in one of the future seasons that will turn out to be 100% pure book stuff. Because, with radicals, you just know that stuff like this will happen. :D

We already had pure book stuff, though, with Night king scene

[igrewupinKL]

anything new of recent? read up to about p180

I really can't get on board with Sansa arriving in winterfell in ep503

[Konradsmith]

I really can't get on board with Sansa arriving in winterfell in ep503

I can't yet either but I do believe alcasinoroyale has some reasons for now thinking so.

[Mark Antony]

So...D&D want to have Fat Mac and Charlie from "It's Always Sunny" on the show.

The Nightking Cometh

[Crixus]

Varys:"I wonder, who gave him the wine?"

Barry:"His squire. From the King's own skin."

Ned:"His squire? The Lannister boy?"

Varys: "Such a loyal boy to make sure his king did not lack refreshment. I do hope the poor lad does not blame himself."

That's paraphrased but that's the scene in ep. 107 where some folks discuss this. I think showing that dialogue overtop some clips of Lancel and Cersei's relationship etc. would set it up well enough.

They should either have the bit where Cersei tells him to get back into bed, or the bit from BW where he tries asserting himself to her (LOL!) and she bitchslaps him.