What changes and cuts would YOU have made in D&D's place? (Book Spoilers)

[MakeThemBurn]

I wouldn't be able to complete this until I finished reading the whole series and watching the whole series. At this point, it's impossible to determine what's important and not important in the long run for the storylines.

This is a point most book purists seem to forget. The producers know how the show will end. They know who can be cut and who will be there in the end.

I've been happy with all the cuts. Zombie Catelyn and I'm-not-dead-either-Aegon were the best cuts imo. I would have propably cut the Greyjoys out completely. Not only are they boring, but they seem totally out of place. What exactly have the ironborn brought to the story? Nothing.

My only complaint is the sexploitation. Why on earth is it required for every single actress to reveal her breasts? And the brothel scenes. And that God awful Theon torture scene where he gets sexually aroused for naked women when he just lost a finger.

[Ajax Rules]

@Sati: You long for LSH, but you would cut all Grejoys except for Balon and Asha??????

[Ajax Rules]

@Make them burn: The greyjoys are a very, interesting, distinctive subculture within the Westeros dynamics. Their own way of life, geografy, history, history.

At this point they are still somewhat underdeveloped regarding the overall story, but that might change in the future. When it does, it shows superior writing/directing introducing them from the start (rather than emerging out of nowhere).

This is a mark of great tv-shows, that a new storyline in say season 5 or 6, is carefully prepared for years.

[RandomUser191]

- less KL in season 3

-Balon would be dead before Robb

- Asha wouldn't try to save Theon in season 4

- No Craster's keep arc in season 4.

- would've added Tysha, LSH, all 3 Martell kids (i think quentyn's story isn't over yet) and all 3 Greyjoy uncles (well... maybe not Victarion)

- Brienne's storyline in season 4 would've resembled her story in AFFC

- would've changed Dany's arc in season 2 (we basically got NOTHING for 3 episodes and then Quarth, all the way to the end + crapy house of the undying scene).

and so on.

i usually defend most of the show's changes that were made in seasons 1 - 3 (even Talisa) but season 4 ruined the show for me

[TFP]

I'm happy enough with the show edits to date, certainly the narrative ones, the main things that've annoyed me are the tweaks to the personalities of characters such as tyrion and shae.

Not knowing the final outcomes of course makes it hard to definitively comment on the right material to cut. my only no-brainers are:

[a] greatly simplify the stuff that happens to dany in 'the east'. qarth, astapor, yunkai, & meereen should be two cities at the most. a couple of the minor players out there such as the harpy, shavepate, & so on, are impossible to care about. get her over the sea much as quickly as possible.

either scrap brienne's post-KL adventures or change them altogether. what they've done so far seems pretty good.

[d] no LS.

[e] no aegon, & consequently less screentime for tyrion whilst he's travelling.

I actually quite like the ironborn & would keep as much of them in as possible, though I think I'd have likely merged balon's three brothers into one person.

[zaphodbrx]

I would cut all the fillers.

And put in all the original book scenes.

[Trevelyan]

- Overall more Catelyn, especially in Season 3, and obviously Lady Stoneheart. The reveal should have happened in the last scene of Season 4, mirroring the epilogue of A Storm of Swords.

- Less screentime for Cersei, until her Feast for Crows storyline. Actually, less screentime for all Lannisters.

- No Missandei + Grey Worm romance. I feel like this is the most superficial

and unnecessary story Benioff & Weiss have ever come up with, and I lament every second of precious screentime wasted on this.

- I'm not sure what they could or should do with the Ironborn story arc, but I'd love to have Euron Greyjoy on the show, although I don't really care about Victarion or Damphair.

There certainly are other things I'm not really fond of, but honestly, as long as they don't cut Lady Stoneheart, I'm perfectly willing and capable of enjoying the show, despite all these deviations from the books. Stoneheart is literally the one and only thing I need to have on the show.

[barristan-b]

I wouldn't have been timid with the flashbacks/dreams/prophecies:

-I would make Ned's tower dream a little more visual, not enough to know what's going on but maybe a glimpse of white armour shining in the Dornish sky, Oswell, Gerold and Arthur "And now it begins"

-Completely re-do the House of the Undying.

-I would actually cut some of Tyrion's cell scenes a little shorter (Jaime most notably) in S4 along with Missandei/Greyworm and use the added time for the Kingsmoot.

-I'm cool with what D&D have done north of the neck for the most part on the mainland.

-I would keep it without Lady Stoneheart though I don't know where D&D are going with the BwB storyline.

-I would make quick takes where we see what Bran is seeing. Almost like the viewer is looking through the weirwood to get a glimpse of some visions (My first scene of S5: Lyanna/Brandon scene near the pond and it cuts off to Arya in Braavos)

[Caesar Targaryen]

- Don't have Littlefinger do stupid things (like telling the hookers his entire plans and Cersei that he knows her and Jaime are fucking) and make him more of a mysterious, in the shadows type of guy who plays his cards close to his chest.

- Change the episode 4.03 sept scene to where when Cersei tells Jaime to back the fuck off, he does so. Or just end the scene with them embracing (am I the only one who was seriously disturbed by that part?).

- Keep that Season 2 scene of Loras grieving over Renly.

- Explain where hell Blackfish and Gendry are at.

[WolfOfWinter]

- Deal with the aftermath of the RW by including LS simply so people can see that stuff is happening in the Riverlands and that the Freys are f*****.

- Stick to the book characterization of Tyrion/Stannis/Jon/Robb/Dany. Tyrion's whitewashed, Stannis is depressed whipped emo dude whose relationship with Davos is largely ignored, Dany's one-dimensional, Jon was incompetent in seasons 3-4, Robb was a douche and very very dumb.

- Ask Gillen and Clarke to please improve their acting.

- Include Willas simply by mentioning him like in the books so Sansa's set to be betrothed to him rather than Loras. Not only do I hate how most of the Major Houses barely have any heirs, they also really messed up Sansa's character in season 3. I mean, "can my brother and mother, who are currently at war with the Crown, join our wedding, Loras, even though your family's siding with my family's enemies?"

- Not set Bran up to simply be a prop for other characters. It's like he lost all personality past season two. Add more depth to him. How does he feel about being told that the fate of the world rests on his shoulders? How is he dealing with ripping a man apart with his (Hodor's) bare hands at the age of twelve?

- Have Arya and Sansa mention their little brothers past season one, just once even. Does no one else think it's weird how both girls act like they never had any younger brothers? There's been no reaction to Theon taking Winterfell and killing Bran and Rickon.

- Drop hints throughout season four that the Northern lords and ladies aren't fully cooperating only to include Manderly and some of the other Northerners in season five. I feel like he's one of the most important minor characters, and completely ignoring the Northerners doesn't go over very well with the picture we had of them in seasons one and two. I mean, these are the only people to crown their liege lord.

- Keep fAegon, both because I like the idea of him and because Varys and Illyrio's motives make no sense otherwise.

[magic713]

-I am not a fan of Lady Stoneheart, and Fairley's last scene on the show was so powerful that it might feel a little forceful to bring her back as a character who is practically a completely different person.

-Have Catelyn and Robb hear of Bran and Rickon's supposed deaths. I don't even get what Theon was doing. Displaying the burned bodies, yet trying to keep them secret?

-I wouldn't have Robb marry Talisa after learning Catelyn released Jaime. That just made Robb appear more dumb.

-Speaking of changing dumb decisions, I wouldn't have Talisa at the Red Wedding. Assuming the wedding wasn't a trap, why did no one suggest she stay behind, due to her presence being a further insult to the Freys? I know, from a production view, it was to kill her off, and ensure Robb had no heirs, but story and logic-wise, it was just plain stupid.

-A complete overhaul of the Qarth storyline.

-Remove the Theon torture scenes. Leave something to the imagination.

-Stannis be less emo. Take out his trip to Braavos.

[Steelborn]

At this point, I would cut Stoneheart (which seems they are doing so). It's problematic to introduce her 2 years after Catelyn died, I think.

And I would cut the Sand Snakes and cast Arianne as a super woman to replace them all.

I've been happy with all the cuts. Zombie Catelyn and I'm-not-dead-either-Aegon were the best cuts imo. I would have propably cut the Greyjoys out completely. Not only are they boring, but they seem totally out of place. What exactly have the ironborn brought to the story? Nothing.

If you say so.

[ServantOnIce]

Tower of Joy Flashback . .. Woeeee to the usurrperr if we had beennn . .

[Lion_Eyes]

I imagine it must have been ridiculously hard over the years to know what would work in the eyes of the viewers (unsullied and book readers) and what would translate well to screen and what wouldn't

Anyway changes and cuts I would have made from adapting the books:

• I am not the biggest Greyjoy fan so can't say I particularly care they have been dropped/forgotten about but it is sloppy to have left Balon floating about since Season 2 then imply at the Purple Wedding he is dead/out of the picture when he isn't. I would have either kept Balon alive and have him act in Euron's role or kill Balon and have the Kingsmoot off screen with an additional scene between Asha (yep her name would stay Asha) and Euron explaining this. All the bravado/slogans that the Ironborn spouted off in Season 2 just seems even worse now when they essentially amounted to nothing
  
• Would get rid of Mel's leech trick unless all the Kings were gonna die
  
• Wouldn't have had a whole episode for the Battle of Castle Black - there were at most 2/3 characters anyone actually cared about
  
• Ditch Aegon/Only have Jon as a secret Targ - anymore just gets silly
  
• Jeyne instead of Talisa and instead of all the focus of the Stark/Tully storyline being on them focus on Catelyn and actually have her grieve for Bran/Rickon. And Talisa being at the wedding was just..... How did Robb not think this would immensely insult Walder Frey?!
  
• More Tyrell/Dornish heirs. All these high flying famillies would have multiple children if they could to have as many possible heirs (and sons) as possible. They don't need to be unique characters/ they just have to be there and around a bit like Kevan was in Season 2
  
• No flashbacks/visions (a change I am generally happy with in the show) with the exception of Maggy the Frog/Bran's visions/warging/HOTU
  
• Less Tyrion screentime in Season 2/3 and have him as a more "morally grey" character like he was in the first Season
  
• Make Aiden speak in his Season 1 accent
  
• A reveal of the whole Bran's Assassin plot from Season 1. I don't care if it's not Joffrey like the books (a pretty weak conclusion it ended up being) but to set it up without nothing was weird
  
• LS :frown5: I loved book/show Cat but I think this would just be so weird on screen and they have left it too long. It's a shamee that nobody on the show minus Sansa seemed to care after the RW at all
  
• Some word or noise of agreement in the Sept. How bloody easy it would have been
  
• Ditch all the unneccesary whores, sex scenes and nudity (I feel like a right prude writing that)
  
• Have a couple of scenes showing the start of what's happening at the Riverlands even if there is no focal character in them to show this
  
• I know it deviates from the books but more Osha/less Jojen and Meera (is that her name?)
  
• Included Tysha part of Tyrion's storyline
  
• Not turn Loras into an awful gay stereotype (referring to alleged scenes in 5-01 which will be clunky exposition)
  
• Include Varys more as a sneaky guy. He seems to have been Tyrion's mate since Season 2 and doesn't seem like he's up to no good the way LF is (though would have him keep some stuff to himself!)
  
• Make Tommen younger - i really wanted him to throw a tantrum like he does in AFFC but since he is about 16 now it seems unlikely!
  

[barristan-b]

- Overall more Catelyn, especially in Season 3, and obviously Lady Stoneheart. The reveal should have happened in the last scene of Season 4, mirroring the epilogue of A Storm of Swords.

- Less screentime for Cersei, until her Feast for Crows storyline. Actually, less screentime for all Lannisters.

- No Missandei + Grey Worm romance. I feel like this is the most superficial

and unnecessary story Benioff & Weiss have ever come up with, and I lament every second of precious screentime wasted on this.

- I'm not sure what they could or should do with the Ironborn story arc, but I'd love to have Euron Greyjoy on the show, although I don't really care about Victarion or Damphair.

There certainly are other things I'm not really fond of, but honestly, as long as they don't cut Lady Stoneheart, I'm perfectly willing and capable of enjoying the show, despite all these deviations from the books. Stoneheart is literally the one and only thing I need to have on the show.

I think the production costs for scenes at sea may have been a big factor with the Greyjoy storyline amongst others. That's always been a big distinction I notice between the pages and the screen: the amount of time on the water.

And I agree it's a little too Lannister-centric.

[Eddard the Builder]

Cut Ross, use the money to hire an actress to play Adrianne Martell in Season 5

Greatjon Umber in Season 5, replaces Lord Manderly.

Cut some of Theon's torture scenes

Cut Ser Loras' sex scene in Season 3, replace it with the Season 2 deleted scene, add his 'When the sun has set no candle to replace it' and direct it towards Cersei in his convo with Jamie

Lady Olenna and Lord Mace introduced in Season 2 negotiating with Littlefinger

Mountain Mill nonsense is cut and replaced with the actual plot with luring Tywin into the West

Cut Robb trying to take Casterly Rock

Cut Karstarks being half of Robb's army

Add Mance's royal family

Cut Tyrion's heartwarming goodbye with Jamie

Add Tyrion leaving on bad terms with everyone

Cut Cersei threatening Margery with 70,000 Tyrell soldiers in King's Landing. I mean come on she's dumb but not that dumb.

Add Tywin having Joffrey actually be carried to the Small Council Meeting, because lol who doesn't like Tywin owning Joff.

Add Kevin in the Season 3 and Season 4 Small Council meetings

Add Lord Randall Tarly, have him also sit on the Small Council in Season 4.

Introduce Mace in Season 3

[Alex Storm]

Cut Ross, use the money to hire an actress to play Adrianne Martell in Season 5

Greatjon Umber in Season 5, replaces Lord Manderly.

Cut some of Theon's torture scenes

Cut Ser Loras' sex scene in Season 3, replace it with the Season 2 deleted scene, add his 'When the sun has set no candle to replace it' and direct it towards Cersei in his convo with Jamie

Lady Olenna and Lord Mace introduced in Season 2 negotiating with Littlefinger

Mountain Mill nonsense is cut and replaced with the actual plot with luring Tywin into the West

Cut Robb trying to take Casterly Rock

Cut Karstarks being half of Robb's army

Add Mance's royal family

Cut Tyrion's heartwarming goodbye with Jamie

Add Tyrion leaving on bad terms with everyone

Cut Cersei threatening Margery with 70,000 Tyrell soldiers in King's Landing. I mean come on she's dumb but not that dumb.

Add Tywin having Joffrey actually be carried to the Small Council Meeting, because lol who doesn't like Tywin owning Joff.

Add Kevin in the Season 3 and Season 4 Small Council meetings

Add Lord Randall Tarly, have him also sit on the Small Council in Season 4.

Introduce Mace in Season 3

I like all of these

[Queen Carol]

A lot of these have already been mentioned, and some are totally petty, but here's what I would do in no particular order.

1) I would've included the prophecies in the House of the UnDying

2) I would've had the final scene of 4.10 being The Brotherhood with the Stoneheart reveal.

3) I would've had Littlefinger dye Sansa's hair right away like he did in the book, because the whole "Darth Sansa" thing felt awkward in the show.

4) I would've had Jaime tell Tyrion about Tysha after he frees him.

5) I would've included Coldhands as the guide.

6) I would've included Arianne, even if she didn't have a huge presence, she'd at least be there so they could mention Dorne having a female heir.

7) I would've made Ramsay more menacing and less like a mustache twirling hobbit.

8) Stannis would've saved the day at the end of 4.9 instead of the beginning of 4.10, and I would've moved the first 5-10 minutes of 4.9 to 4.8.

9) I would leave out this Missendei/Grey Worm business.

10) I would've included Jaime's "I dreamed of you" line to Brienne.

11) I would've included more of Stannis' hilarious comments from the book.

12) I would've left Cat clawing her face in the Red Wedding and would've at least spent a little more time on the Northern Lords to make their losses so much more important.

[Nilan8888]

Ideally:

- Cut the Theon Season 3 subplot, have him show up in Season 4 looking more like Theon from ADWD. White hair and all that.

- Increase Stannis's relatability from S3 onward, more like the book

- Ensure the Mountain didn't have to be recast, and keep the S1 guy. He was fine -- I know the show runners probably tried, so this is sort of not fair.

- Cut the LF sexposition scene. It made LF's motivations too clearly when he was more ambiguous in the books.

- Cut the Yara stuff from S4. Not needed.

- If we're doing any of the Greyjoy stuff, substitute Alfie's 2nd in command in season 2 for Euron, and surmise that he survived his encounters with the Boltons somehow. He can then kill Balon and just try to seize control as a rival captain. Actually he could fill both the Euron and Victarion roles if necessary.

[ShadowKitteh]

hmmmm.

While I miss Arya and Jon's warging, I don't know how I would add them, and still make Bran's power seem waaaay better/next level. It's easy in the books because of words/POVs/seeing the world via character's perspective. Not so easy to do visually/not in a character's head. It might be too many competing Stark wargs, and dilute Bran's abilities. And since they've skipped it in the show, I think it's safe to say that's not how Jon will be 'saved.' If they include Mel's glamouring this season, I think that will be how Jon survives, otherwise, Mel will likely resurrect him, since they included Thoros doing the same.

And though I'd love more of the Nymeria hunting the Riverlands, it really is just icing for Arya's cake.

I, like a lot of other book readers, was disappointed with the HotU at the time, but I realize there's no way to shoot it as written. There isn't enough money on Earth to shoot the book version, but more importantly, it would have been a truckload of visual spoilers that wouldn't work for the show. In the books, since we get that from Dany's POV, we readers don't recognize anyone from the RW, because Dany doesn't. That wouldn't work on the show, since we already do know them all.

To be honest, I love what D&D did with the HotU. There's a LOT there. The Red Keep a burned out ruin, Snow on the IT, Dany reaching for- but not touching it. Dany finding her love beyond the Wall....

I do want LSH. I haven't given up hope. But it won't be a big plot-loss if we don't see her ever.

Where are they going with the Greyjoys?

I would love to see The Citadel, but since there's no Val and a Manse Jr, I suppose they could just have Jon send Sam to train there, but there's no reason for Gilly to go too....

I actually love the changes D&D have made, and trust them at this point. They've yet to let me down. So many adaptations of books go so completely off the rails, (I'm looking at you, True Blood), that for them to be still so on point, and true to the overall arc after 4 seasons, is a minor miracle in the Ent Biz.