[Book Spoilers] GRRM Confirms Osha in WoW

[yankee211]

There's no point in Manderly sending Davos on a wild goose chase

Before talking with Wyman, Davos had no idea that Rikon and Bran were alive and there were 1001 more profitable wild goose chases that Davos could have been sent on

The only reason for sharing what he had learned from Wex with Davos was to get Davos looking for the boy

We've also seen the set up of Ramsey's bitches being trained to fight wolves, so Shaggy vs the Girls should be an epic

Remember, the last time we seen shaggy was through Ghost and he was fighting a unicorn last time we heard. And GRRM does alot of forshadowing because Wyman whould only know the child is Rickon if the wolf is present. I honestly think GRRM will kill off shaggy or be severly hurt.

[juanml82]

I mentioned this in another thread, but I just find it a bit weird that Manderly and Glover seem to know Rickon's whereabouts for a while now, and instead of doing something to retrieve him they were just sitting on their hands and waiting for a smuggler to come along.

C'mon, since when is Davos the only smuggler in Westeros? White Harbor is right next to the Three Sisters, the smugglers' den par excellence. As easy as sending Glover in secret to hire some old smuggler with a raft who would take him to Skaagos. And I don't buy that ALL of Manderly's captains are rivermen, as he said.

Something's fishy in White Harbor. I'm not saying Manderly send Davos on a wild goose chase, but either something's up or GRRM came up with a lazy excuse to get Davos to Skaagos.

And there's also the whole shaggy dog thing, that I'm not sure it's just a coincidence

Maybe it's to avoid spies. Suppose he sends someone to look for an average smuggler who has nothing at stake regarding Rickon. The smuggler reports to King's Landing, or seizes Rickon for himself (and gets a profit in selling him to the Lannisters). Davos, on the other hand, has a vested interest in seeing Rickon sitting at his father's seat in Winterfell and, should he refuse, Manderly can just kill him, as he has him in his power.

The deal with no other captain being able to sail to Skagos is definitely odd, though. First, because Rickon somehow made it to Skagos in the first place. Second, because despite how reclusive the Skagosi are and how dangerous the seas are, there is still likely to be some trade going on.

In any case, unleash the Skagosi Unicorn Cavalry! :D

[Anya, Vengeance Demon]

I mentioned this in another thread, but I just find it a bit weird that Manderly and Glover seem to know Rickon's whereabouts for a while now, and instead of doing something to retrieve him they were just sitting on their hands and waiting for a smuggler to come along.

C'mon, since when is Davos the only smuggler in Westeros? White Harbor is right next to the Three Sisters, the smugglers' den par excellence. As easy as sending Glover in secret to hire some old smuggler with a raft who would take him to Skaagos. And I don't buy that ALL of Manderly's captains are rivermen, as he said.

I think it's a combination of two things: first, you don't just send any smuggler to go get the rightful lord of Winterfell. Rickon is a valuable hostage, after all, and any number of unscrupulous men would be willing to sell him to Roose Bolton for a plump bag of gold. Davos, on the other hand, is known for keeping to his word, and has a good reason besides for wanting to see the mission succeed (becuase it would further Stannis' cause).

Second, Manderly's not going to bring in Rickon until he's ready to make his move. It would be hard to keep particularly Shaggydog hidden for long, the ship's crew would probably talk, etc. So Manderly doesn't want to make this move until he's willing to throw in with Stannis. And up until now, he's needed to appease the Freys to get his son back.

[Dolorous22]

I mentioned this in another thread, but I just find it a bit weird that Manderly and Glover seem to know Rickon's whereabouts for a while now, and instead of doing something to retrieve him they were just sitting on their hands and waiting for a smuggler to come along.

C'mon, since when is Davos the only smuggler in Westeros? White Harbor is right next to the Three Sisters, the smugglers' den par excellence. As easy as sending Glover in secret to hire some old smuggler with a raft who would take him to Skaagos. And I don't buy that ALL of Manderly's captains are rivermen, as he said.

Something's fishy in White Harbor. I'm not saying Manderly send Davos on a wild goose chase, but either something's up or GRRM came up with a lazy excuse to get Davos to Skaagos.

And there's also the whole shaggy dog thing, that I'm not sure it's just a coincidence

Well, he couldn't/wouldn't want to send just ANY smugler. They are lawless types who (as mentioned above) would sell to the highest bidder. Something of a variable in the plan. Davos has good cause to honor his word plus has very few options.

I also think Manderly and co really like Davos. He stood there, bold as brass, denouncing the Freys and Boltons. Takes cajones the size of Dragon eggs to step up to that. Davos is perfect in for this task. Plus, he's "dead". Anyone living may have people guessing what they're up to.

It only requires belief that the Manderly's just-so-happened to be mulling over what was best to do right before he turned up.

[Overlord of Skagos]

What age do you think Rickon is according to the timeline in TWoW? He was 3 at the start of the series,so around 6-7 years now? 8 maybe given that Sansa has been in Vale for almost a year?

In any case I don't see him being the great Stark lord everyone here expects him to be.I'm more curious about who the protector will be ruling Winterfell till he comes of age.[assuming something of that sort happens]

[juanml82]

What age do you think Rickon is according to the timeline in TWoW? He was 3 at the start of the series,so around 6-7 years now? 8 maybe given that Sansa has been in Vale for almost a year?

In any case I don't see him being the great Stark lord everyone here expects him to be.I'm more curious about who the protector will be ruling Winterfell till he comes of age.[assuming something of that sort happens]

I think Manderly is aiming for that role, either himself if he survives or through one of his grandaughters. Sansa or Jon may prefer to have the regency themselves, though.

[Arataniello]

I still wonder if Manderly has done something about trying to trace Bran and Co - after all, Wex has clearly told those in White Harbor about ALL the survivors of Winterfell.

Rickon is a more obvious target for Manderly to go for, since that was who Wex followed from Winterfell, but you'd think he (Manderly) would do something to locate the elder surviving Stark male heir. Perhaps with the state of the North being what it is at this point in time, any searchers he has sent out have come to a grisly end.

[BitsOfBrains]

Somehow I think the Skagos chapters will be horror themed. GRRM likes to write horror, and Skagos seems like the perfect setting for that.

Yeah that would be great.

Give GRRM a chance to show off his horror chops.

[Anya, Vengeance Demon]

Rickon is a more obvious target for Manderly to go for, since that was who Wex followed from Winterfell, but you'd think he (Manderly) would do something to locate the elder surviving Stark male heir. Perhaps with the state of the North being what it is at this point in time, any searchers he has sent out have come to a grisly end.

Interesting point. With Bolton soldiers asking after 'living dead' surely it's an open secret in some places that Bran might still be alive, but even given that most folks would have no idea where Bran went. As I recall, Bran notes that the mountain clansmen have seen him and the others trekking north from Winterfell, and of course he meets up with a Liddle.

But with Manderly declaring his loyalty to the Iron Throne to all and sundry, would the clans have any reason to tell his people where Bran was headed? (And of course Sam has never told anyone where Bran is.)

[Gerg Sknab]

I'll be a broken record however here goes one more time

Davos, Rickon and Osha will be found lashed together and tethered to Shaggy Dog after washing up on Sweetsister's shores.

Shaggy will not allow the local populus near until a young man shows up where upon Shaggy backs down.

The Young man goes directly to the aid of Rickon who is semi conciousness looks up grabs him and sobs father. (the young man is John Snow Sisterton Eddard's Stark's natural born son).

Davos and Osha revive to see a resembalence to Stark countenance where upon the youth shows a Stark pin given to him by Sansa/Alayne to all but confirm he is of Stark blood

The Borrells offer passage to White Harbour to insure that the North will know and rally to the Starks...

[Federico]

I agree that Manderly having no good choices amongst his own resources to recover Rickon is problematic. I like the point made regarding the trustworthiness required of those that would retrieve Rickon. This would reduce the pool of candidates.

Commerce with Skagos is apparently extremely low, if not non-existent. Thus, history becomes legend becomes superstition. Treacherous waters surrounding Skagos would sink ships, reinforcing fear. This fear even reached Davos, whose experiences were mostly far from Skagos. To those whose experiences are mostly near Skagos, I speculate these fears are felt more intensely. Bear in mind, this is a mostly illiterate society where such things sustain and grow.

So, this fear can also reduce the pool of resources that can and would be willing to go to Skagos.

I wouldn't say this fully reconciles the problematic point identified. But, I'd like to think it helps.

Eirik

[Luddagain]

Manderlys play a VERY long game. Has anyone noticed that the Manderlys are the sole remaining Knights of the Green Hand, presumably still loyal to the ancient Gardeners and to the Green men.

Just out of musing I am inclined to think Sam Tarly has some Manderly blood. Clever and fat. Also both from the Reach originally.

[Luddagain]

Manderly is clever and a VERY good judge of character. He would TRUST Davos because he knows him to be an honourable man.

[BitsOfBrains]

I agree that Manderly having no good choices amongst his own resources to recover Rickon is problematic. I like the point made regarding the trustworthiness required of those that would retrieve Rickon. This would reduce the pool of candidates.

Its not that Manderly had none of his own men to send, I'm sure he could have. In fact I would be surprised if Davos didn't have one or two white harbor men as his assistants/protectors/sailing hands.

Thing is sending Davos kills two birds with one stone. It gets Davos (who is supposedly dead) out of white harbor where his discovery would be bad news for Manderly.

It also sends a renowned smuggler/sailor off to do what he does best. I am sure Manderly knows plenty of sailors and plenty of smugglers but to what extent he could trust the smugglers to do his bidding or his sailors to do some smuggling is up for debate.

[Darkbringer]

I think that Manderly plans to rebel against Bolton and declare for Stannis if there is any chance of Stannis winning, with or without Rickon. This could mean a horrible dissapointment for us re-Rickon, but I doubt it. I'm still believing/hoping for a Rickon/Shireen betrothal.

[Ser Pounce FTW]

I think the best thing about this news is that Rickon will finally reappear. I'm dying to know how he's turned out and I expect he'll have the +5 year sound to him, too, just as we've seen in Mercy and the new Alayne chapter without actually having the 5 year gap.

[Bastetcat]

Really, I do not see how "feral Rickon" could become such a popular notion. Rickon was never left alone to be raised by wolves or other wild animals like some sort of Mowgli or Tarzan. He is supposed to be with Osha (and it seems that so indeed he is), raised and taught by her. I also believe that actually, survival in the wild requires some serious levels of discipline and that Osha would be one to teach him that, a no-nonsense, stern but protective mother figure.

Also Rickon accepting a wildling as a protector/motherly figure can help make peace with the wildlings. If the Lord of Winterfell Rickon Stark likes Osha, it makes a huge difference.

Rickon isn't only important because he is a Stark. He is important because he means "peace with the wildling". Thet is why we need Rickon so match into the picture again. If the North and the wildlings cant unit, they are lost.

[Beorn Snow]

Manderlys play a VERY long game. Has anyone noticed that the Manderlys are the sole remaining Knights of the Green Hand, presumably still loyal to the ancient Gardeners and to the Green men.

Just out of musing I am inclined to think Sam Tarly has some Manderly blood. Clever and fat. Also both from the Reach originally.

So loyal they rebelled and had to flee north.

[Isgrimner]

Regarding Rickon being "feral". I think most of that is because he is warging Shaggy Dog at such a young age. He is taking on a lot of Shaggy's wolf traits. Just like the wolves at times have shown to have the same demeanor as their "Starks".

As far as Osha returning, I always expected her to at some point. I think I read a SSM or something where Martin said that it was possible with this one character where the actress from the show might influence how he writes the character. That kind of gave away that he was planning on having Osha back.

[Daenor]

Regarding Rickon being "feral". I think most of that is because he is warging Shaggy Dog at such a young age. He is taking on a lot of Shaggy's wolf traits. Just like the wolves at times have shown to have the same demeanor as their "Starks".

As far as Osha returning, I always expected her to at some point. I think I read a SSM or something where Martin said that it was possible with this one character where the actress from the show might influence how he writes the character. That kind of gave away that he was planning on having Osha back.

Actually i think he said that he found the TV Osha far more interesting than his.That's why he wants to include her more in the books.But since he also said no more POV characters i guess will see her through the eyes of Davos or some other character who's around the North